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Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

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Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#11

Post by thomasahle »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9

I agree with most of this, except the vim part. I use vim, dvorak and a Kinesis Advantage keyboard and have never felt that it held me back. If anything, I think it encouraged me to use more appropriate controls a available in vim. If you're moving around in vim one character at a time you're probably not getting the most out of it. I did learn dvorak before vim though, I can imagine unlearning and re-learning to be…

I would assume you Jay remapped your vim keys. Or that standard such remaps were already available for dvorak.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#12

Post by SuperPaintMan »

codesections wrote: post #10
germ wrote: post #6

If you're willing to go down a rabbit hole, designing your own keymaps and hacking on a layout can go a long way to alleviating RSI symptoms. The author doesn't touch on it but QMK will change the way you interact with a keyboard and make those tiny 40% and smaller boards feel a ton bigger. When I made the layout for GergoPlex[2] I designed it around Vim/i3/Programming and other uses secondary. But because you can ea…

> I was able to get Kailh to manufacture lighter weighted Choc switches (gChoc, 20g Linear) for use on boards like GergoPlex and others. What are your thoughts on linear versus tactile switches as far as preventing RSI goes?

I think on the right kind of switch it doesn't matter. The idea with a tactile bump is to give your fingers feedback to prevent a bottoming out, but on a lower profile switch that's just not an option (the general consensus is that tactile chocs are a little bit garbage) and you're probably going to bottom them out anyway.

My solution to this is to just use O-Rings on Chocs to soften the bottom out. It's less jarring and gives a bit of mush to a bottom out instead of a hard hit. To some this is heresy though.

That being said, if you're deadset on the feel of a tactile, it's an option.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#13

Post by jrib »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9

I agree with most of this, except the vim part. I use vim, dvorak and a Kinesis Advantage keyboard and have never felt that it held me back. If anything, I think it encouraged me to use more appropriate controls a available in vim. If you're moving around in vim one character at a time you're probably not getting the most out of it. I did learn dvorak before vim though, I can imagine unlearning and re-learning to be…

I agree. Yes, hjkl are no longer a single cluster in Dvorak, but jk are now on one's left hand for vertical movement and hl are on one's right. So it has that advantage. Like you pointed out though, you want to avoid overusing those keys to move around anyway.

I did learn Dvorak after Vim. Yes, it meant there was a second layer of added pain. I stopped using vim for a couple of weeks altogether, learned Dvorak to the point where I could touch type again (although more slowly), then went ahead and retrained the muscle memory for vim.

For anyone not used to using vim, vim users get to the point where they think "change word" and their mind maps that to top row middle finger, bottom row middle finger. There's no middle step of "change word" -> "cw". So just learning the muscle memory for letters isn't sufficient for then using vim as fast as you could before. At least that's how it was for me.

As someone who also started feeling RSI symptoms in his early 30s, I definitely recommend learning Dvorak and picking up a split keyboard. I like the ergodox, personally. The straight columns seem to help too. I think other alternative layouts and ergonomic keyboard combinations have their merits too.

For anyone else hesitating, observe how frequently your wrists end up in awkward angles while typing on a regular qwerty layout. That and the pain I started to feel is what motivated me.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#14

Post by GrantZvolsky »

I've been typing without any signs of RSI until I started using vim. Vim forced me to switch from my 'custom/natural' hand position* , which uses just 3-4 fingers of the right hand, to the home row position, which uses all five. This put too much strain on my ring finger which is much weaker than the other fingers, and that I believe led to RSI. Maybe I'm an outlier with atypical anatomy, or maybe we should challenge the notion that there is only one correct hand position.

* Interestingly my peak typing speed is 500 CPM in the 'incorrect' position and 470 CPM in the 'correct' position.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#16

Post by atemerev »

I am usually quite saddened each time when I see the common “moving hands = RSI” conclusion. It is not like that. RSI mostly happens when you move your _wrists_ while trying to keep your hand in place. When I type, I move my arms and my wrists together, to prevent straining and unnatural angles. Worked so far (I am 37, and I code every day since 19).

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#17

Post by atemerev »

blumomo wrote: post #4

Thanks for this article. It made me buying a Kinesis Advantage. Since long I wanted to “get rid” of my notebook‘s touchpad and start using HJKL and all the other navigational commands in vim (instead of 2-finger scrolling on my touchpad). With that ergonomic keyboard, I will have no other choice. Looking forward to relearning my typing habits!

Didn’t work for me, sold it after two months.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#18

Post by atemerev »

GrantZvolsky wrote: post #14

I've been typing without any signs of RSI until I started using vim. Vim forced me to switch from my 'custom/natural' hand position* , which uses just 3-4 fingers of the right hand, to the home row position, which uses all five. This put too much strain on my ring finger which is much weaker than the other fingers, and that I believe led to RSI. Maybe I'm an outlier with atypical anatomy, or maybe we should challenge…

In my observations, this is quite common. Most people who complained about RSI in my environment were heavy vim or emacs users.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#19

Post by saurik »

GrantZvolsky wrote: post #14

I've been typing without any signs of RSI until I started using vim. Vim forced me to switch from my 'custom/natural' hand position* , which uses just 3-4 fingers of the right hand, to the home row position, which uses all five. This put too much strain on my ring finger which is much weaker than the other fingers, and that I believe led to RSI. Maybe I'm an outlier with atypical anatomy, or maybe we should challenge…

I have always used vim and I have a "custom/natural hand position" and am not at all sure how or why you are feeling the need to use all five fingers... I find vim extremely effective even on an iPhone pecking with my thumbs.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#20

Post by codetrotter »

> Personally, I use vim for everything and dvorak ruins the home row of hjkl, so I haven’t learned dvorak. If I were to, I’d first learn emacs, use emacs for everything, and then learn Dvorak.

I use Vim and Dvorak. At the beginning when I switched to Dvorak it felt awkward but, there’s actually a deeper reason it don’t matter that much.

Pressing hjkl for anything more than a few presses at a time is generally IME not desirable.

At the time when I began using Dvorak a decade ago I was still fairly new to Vim and so I used hjkl a lot.

Over time I learned to use more efficient motion commands, as well as using both the hjkl and the other motions in combination with numbers. Like say 5k 7w instead of kkkkkllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.

And in fact the slightly awkward placement of hjkl on Dvorak may even have contributed to me bothering to learn more motion commands and combining them with numbers.

I’ve even gotten quite good at eyeballing number of characters, words, lines, etc without explicitly counting them.

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