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How Chekhov invented the modern short story

newstatesman.com

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Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#21

Post by 082349872349872 »

yesenadam wrote: post #6
libraryofbabel wrote: post #4

I do love Chekhov’s stories, but many years of humanities education has left me pretty jaded about “X invented the modern Y” claims. It’s a lazy formula and relies on the complete slipperiness of the term “modern” (oh and “invented” is kinda vague too). Examples, based on ones I’ve heard: “Shakespeare invented the modern self” “Napoleon invented the modern state” “Newton invented modern science” (Or was it Galileo?)…

They are fun to argue about however! e.g. Montaigne invented the modern self. (Shakespeare was a student of Montaigne.) Bacon invented modern science – the huge enterprise of science and scientific research as we know it today is his program.

Plato invented the modern IngSoc: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24069572

Bacon invented the modern (bitstream) cryptographic encoding: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24339584

Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#22

Post by petre »

pvg wrote: post #16
localhost8000 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s surprising to hear. I’ve found P&V’s Dostoevsky translations very readable, and my understanding from reading reviews online was that P&V’s translations are well regarded in general. Which translation did you read/would you recommend? Edit: I did some reading online and found some criticism of P&V, such as: https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-... https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstt…

They are not without their detractors - part of it is they take on difficult work, some of which hasn't seen serious translator attention for a while. Personally, I find the results poor but obviously lots of people like them. Chekhov's short stories are an English translator's nightmare though - there's a reason he's much more famous as a playwright in the English-speaking world.

I've always liked his plays more than the short stories and I haven't read them in English. Maybe his plays are just better?

Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#23

Post by pvg »

petre wrote: post #22
pvg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not without their detractors - part of it is they take on difficult work, some of which hasn't seen serious translator attention for a while. Personally, I find the results poor but obviously lots of people like them. Chekhov's short stories are an English translator's nightmare though - there's a reason he's much more famous as a playwright in the English-speaking world.

I've always liked his plays more than the short stories and I haven't read them in English. Maybe his plays are just better?

I don't mean the reason is one aspect of his work is 'better' than the other, just that the difficulty translating his short stories makes them much less accessible to English readers than the plays.

I think the reverse is the case for Russian - Жалобная книга (The Complaints Book) is part of Russian idiom, the famous play Чайка (The Seagull) is not. Chekhov just occupies a different part of the English-speaking cultural taxonomy.

A (maybe more than a little over the top) way to put it is, it's like if in Russia, Newton was primarily known as a great theologian and alchemist.

Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#24

Post by billfruit »

pvg wrote: post #23
petre wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always liked his plays more than the short stories and I haven't read them in English. Maybe his plays are just better?

I don't mean the reason is one aspect of his work is 'better' than the other, just that the difficulty translating his short stories makes them much less accessible to English readers than the plays. I think the reverse is the case for Russian - Жалобная книга (The Complaints Book) is part of Russian idiom, the famous play Чайка (The Seagull) is not. Chekhov just occupies a different part of the English-speaking cult…

May be like Victor Hugo is known to English readers as a novelist, while I have heard that French regard him more for his poetry.

Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#25

Post by pvg »

billfruit wrote: post #24
pvg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean the reason is one aspect of his work is 'better' than the other, just that the difficulty translating his short stories makes them much less accessible to English readers than the plays. I think the reverse is the case for Russian - Жалобная книга (The Complaints Book) is part of Russian idiom, the famous play Чайка (The Seagull) is not. Chekhov just occupies a different part of the English-speaking cult…

May be like Victor Hugo is known to English readers as a novelist, while I have heard that French regard him more for his poetry.

That is definitely a much more apt parallel.

Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#27

Post by petre »

pvg wrote: post #23
petre wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always liked his plays more than the short stories and I haven't read them in English. Maybe his plays are just better?

I don't mean the reason is one aspect of his work is 'better' than the other, just that the difficulty translating his short stories makes them much less accessible to English readers than the plays. I think the reverse is the case for Russian - Жалобная книга (The Complaints Book) is part of Russian idiom, the famous play Чайка (The Seagull) is not. Chekhov just occupies a different part of the English-speaking cult…

Strugatski brothers' Monday Begins on Saturday is aslo a difficult translation from Russian. I really love Russian literature, especially modern writers like Vladimir Sorokin, it's so different.

Re: How Chekhov invented the modern short story

#28

Post by pvg »

petre wrote: post #27
pvg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean the reason is one aspect of his work is 'better' than the other, just that the difficulty translating his short stories makes them much less accessible to English readers than the plays. I think the reverse is the case for Russian - Жалобная книга (The Complaints Book) is part of Russian idiom, the famous play Чайка (The Seagull) is not. Chekhov just occupies a different part of the English-speaking cult…

Strugatski brothers' Monday Begins on Saturday is aslo a difficult translation from Russian. I really love Russian literature, especially modern writers like Vladimir Sorokin, it's so different.

There's a lot more runway, in a novel, to establish style and voice - both for the authors and for the translators. Monday Begins on Saturday begins:

"Я приближался к месту моего назначения. Вокруг меня, прижимаясь к самой дороге, зеленел лес, изредка уступая место полянам, поросшим желтой осокою."

Pretty much ez-mode compared to this opener, in the Gooseberries (Крыжовник) someone brought up upthread:

"Еще с раннего утра всё небо обложили дождевые тучи; было тихо, не жарко и скучно, как бывает в серые пасмурные дни, когда над полем давно уже нависли тучи, ждешь дождя, а его нет."

Two different translators' takes:

"The whole sky had been overcast with rain-clouds from early morning; it was a still day, not hot, but heavy, as it is in grey dull weather when the clouds have been hanging over the country for a long while, when one expects rain and it does not come."

and

"From early morning the sky had been overcast with clouds; the day was still, cool, and wearisome, as usual on grey, dull days when the clouds hang low over the fields and it looks like rain, which never comes."

The struggle is real!

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