Earlier quoted context omitted.
At a tangent to your (marvelous) response: > But what about domestic terrorism, or important exceptions? No problem! Get a warrant. I've heard about accounts of police investigations being aided with access to the mass surveillance data (through the FBI, I believe). It never goes to a FISA court, and the police use the information to develop a pretext for a warrant. So even with a warrant, the power may still be unch…
The practice of obtaining warrants with artificial but believable evidentiary basis to conceal the illicit means by which the basis was actually obtained is called "parallel construction", and the intentional practice or facilitation of it should be a felony with a maximum penalty of imprisonment of up to 50 years (2.5x evidence tampering, and I'd be fine with a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years). It is a heinou…
Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
471–480 of 493 posts
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
Joining the intelligence services was basically the way the British upper class avoided combat service in ww2
You can level a lot of shit at the British upper classes, but being war-shy isn’t one of them. Until about 50 years ago, the entirety of the officer corps was picked from the gentry, and it’s not _that_ different today. Junior officers are just as much cannon fodder as other ranks.
I read a book recently about a young (19!) year old tank commander in WW2 and he was told by his CO when arriving in Normandy that his life expectancy was 10 days.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tank-Action-Armoured-Commanders-194...
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#473Now, when can we begin prosecuting the instigators? Presumably, after we have prosecuted those who ordered and participated in torture. (There is no statute of limitations on torture, is there?)
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
Similarly, the NSA betrayed us. They don't get to say that they were just following orders. We must always understand that the NSA betrayed us and we can't trust them any more. Information dominance is the most powerful way for a nation to dominate and control its people. The NSA turned on the US Citizens and betrayed them in this way.
Do you think they wanted to control US people?
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are not toothless, they put them in those positions of power and do so gladly. Remember that Snowden always said he was ready to come back to the U.S and be trialled, as long as the trial wouldn't be a secret trial. Those who created the laws for those secret trial where not the CIA or the NSA, it was politician. The same way they made it so that it is forbidden to talk about the programs of certain agencies, ev…
> They created those laws, not the NSA, not the CIA, they could choose as easily to remove them. But it is too useful for them. This is true, but it's not the entire truth either. Most congressmen don't have access to the really sensitive intelligence that comes from these surveillance operations, so it can't be that useful to many of them. A legislator's primary goal is to get reelected, and working to remove powerf…
Pretty easy fix is to make it illegal for them to not have the info. Then again I would prefer laws entirely removing the idea of sensitive information from the government. It is like a gun. A useful tool, very important for defending yourself, but those who have abused it in the past lose the right to it no matter how useful it is. The government has abused secret information in the past and as such should no longer be alloweed to have it. I rather we didn't have spies than to have the same laws protecting spies also cover up and enable child sexual abuse.
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#476Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ACLU’s moral compass needle has been wobbling for a while now, and it broke off completely after Trump was elected. They realized that they collect significantly more donations by framing themselves as champion of leftist ideals rather than the original purpose of defending actual civil liberties.
Not sure why he is getting downvoted, this is accurate. They used to defend free speech rights for abhorrent people whose positions they strongly opposed like KKK members and Neo-Nazis, on principle. They are now entirely focused on left activism.
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're spooks. This is what they're for. The constraints are at best just theatre, obviously their adversaries aren't going to obey these rules, and they know that so if they are to be effective (and if they aren't why would they exist at all?) they will also disobey these rules. The purpose of such rules in practice is to help the American public to sleep at night despite having tacitly authorised a nightmare. You…
> But as much as they enjoy bluster, Americans are afraid [...] Are Americans really afraid? Or is it that Americans feel comfort in having the meanest dog on the block, even if that dog sometimes nips its master?
Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#479Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apologies for all the typos by the way. Trying to get these written during breaks/downtime, and Autocorrect is making life interesting. >You never answered my question, "How would you define the ability to vote, as only going to select white men?" I actually did, but the typos may have minced it. You say they created a System where the vote only went to "certain white men". You're not really appreciating how wide tha…
>You said: The Peerage and Nobility is intrinsically woven into the concept and definition of English social and civic life. There is no 1:1 mapping of that same characteristic in the United States. There is no Aristocracy. >> I said this: I'm not sure how you quantify (facts/evidence) your statement that "That is the exact opposite of Aristocratic". As this would be considered historic revisionism. Aristocratic migh…
Furthermore, you missed the nuance of the Greek way of life vs. the reality of the American System. Which is that anyone can run and hold office. You have to campaign well, but there is no privileged class you must be a member of. You need only be the bearer of the right ideas at the right time.
That now, it may be woefully out of reach for those who have to hold down a full time job, and is really only attainable once you've gotten yourself to the point you've got a decent social and support network, still doesn't make the American System an Aristocracy. Just a pain to get ahead in, and much more likely to be participated in by those who aspire to politics.
The other "tangents" were refutations of your assertion that various aspects of the architecture of the early American government were specifically attempts to create an aristocratic class. They most certainly were not and even a cursory reading of the Federalist papers demonstrates that while there were some Founders who were favorable toward the idea there were just as many against it. Following any of the historical literature of the time will demonstrate that while there was an appreciation for the well to do, there was just as much for those of more humble origin that found their own way into the political limelight.
You seem to have your mind made up, so that's cool. You do you. However, if you're looking to get taken seriously by anyone who doesn't already agree with you, you may want to consider getting a better appreciation for the historical context of the time in question, and open yourself to the fact that societies evolve over time. Your protests that the Founders were Aristocrats from your privileged position here and now would be laughed at as grim humor or insanity in their time. They were traitors. Treasonous currs and usurpers to the loyalust. They were heroes, patriots, and paragons to the oppressed, and liberty starved of the time. The Dream and ambitious ideal they chased, of a Country of the Free, of, by, and for the People it served at the consent of; bound explicitly from assuming a place as Supreme Arbiter or Granter of Freedoms through the Constitutional foundation laid out in simple language, and left open ended for revision by those that came after. To them, better men and women than any of them could ever hope to be, and underpinned by their single greatest gesture against the established powers of the time: namely their Declaration that started it all.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
So if you're set in your ways, if you truly believe what they built is worthy of ridicule, scorn, and abandonment, know that you are walking in the very shoes they did all those years ago, and take care that you not repeat their mistakes, and that you put at least as much effort, forethought, and sacrifice into that which you're set on hewing from the corpulent mass of the society you seem to have come to despise.
On the other hand, if you're just looking to change things for the better, you're in good company; the trick is to beat the establishments it's own game.