Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup • Hacker News Board

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#131

Post by perennate » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #121

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A. > HN is mostly a US based website This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of…

> many countries providing supports for either split systems or, more commonly, 'window' units.

I think that's what GP was saying about the US -- while window units are very common, split systems are relatively rare. But anyway I think most of the article wasn't specific to a split system A/C unit, or even air conditioners in general.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#132

Post by frosted-flakes » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

andechs wrote: post #114

reaperducer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Russia and Czech Republic we have district heating This exists in some cities in the United States, but it's usually older cities like New York and Chicago. The plus side, is that often if you have a building with district heating, you will also have district cooling. On a somewhat related note, some of the buildings in Chicago heat and cool themselves with water pumped directly from the Chicago River. Lake Michig…

Toronto's deep water cooling system is the largest in the world, and air conditions a good chunk of the downtown core. http://buildipedia.com/aec-pros/engineering-news/torontos-de...

Fascinating. I never knew that this existed.

It's also interesting that it's also part of the city's drinking water supply:

> The Energy Transfer Station includes large arrays of heat exchangers that allow the heat from the downtown chilled water loop to be rejected into the city’s drinking water supply before distribution to the public. The heat removed from the downtown chilled water loop is therefore never transferred to Lake Ontario and the slight temperature increase is insignificant for water utility consumers.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#133

Post by shajznnckfke » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

jk700 wrote: post #115

rsync wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This needs some real data." I agree and I, admittedly, have none. I will say, however, that a deeper dive into these efficiencies would also have to take into account the production, distribution and installation costs (embedded pollution, not dollars) of several hundred little devices vs. a single plant that is integrated into each unit during building construction. Even considering room by room optimization (turni…

A common form of central heating, like burning fossils kind that delivers hot water over insulated pipes to each building, is more efficient in pretty much every way and is cheap to add during building construction than doing it individually. But it's not the case with a "central AC", it's less efficient, more expensive to add during building construction and operating costs are no better. Just think about it, you ca…

Could you have a split AC system with a big centralized compressor?

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#134

Post by shajznnckfke » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #24

Having individual heating and cooling units ( per unit gas heaters! ) is stupendously inefficient. I travel in Asia fairly regularly so this isn't new to me, but even after all of these years I can't believe I continue to see shiny, brand new "high end" condo buildings in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul, etc., with individual AC units hanging out the window. Contrast this with a condo in Minneapolis that I own wher…

Could this be a norm that developed when AC was less common in those countries and only became available as an upgrade in recent decades? Compared to western nations with a longer history of wealth and a reliable power grid, it’s probably a more recent phenomenon that installing AC during construction was practical.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#135

Post by cuddlybacon » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #121

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A. > HN is mostly a US based website This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of…

>> HN is mostly a US based website

> This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of readers from all around the world.

As a non-American reader of HN, I assume things posted are about the US (or even SV specifically) unless the location is specifically mentioned.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#136

Post by erik_seaberg » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:30 PM UTC

nonbirithm wrote: post #124

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly aren't any already existing. I've never seen or heard of that in the USA - particularly for apartments. This is allowed in my apartment. My closest neighbor cut a hole in the door leading outside and affixed an air conditioner to it, then made a setup of plastic bagging to make it lead all the way to th…

Did their front door have a pet door? I can imagine venting hot air through that. Or maybe taking the original door off the hinges and putting it back when you move out, though landlords get cranky about not having working keys.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#137

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:51 PM UTC

shajznnckfke wrote: post #133

jk700 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common form of central heating, like burning fossils kind that delivers hot water over insulated pipes to each building, is more efficient in pretty much every way and is cheap to add during building construction than doing it individually. But it's not the case with a "central AC", it's less efficient, more expensive to add during building construction and operating costs are no better. Just think about it, you ca…

Could you have a split AC system with a big centralized compressor?

You could, but chilled water circulation is the more typical heat transfer medium in central, building-wide units. Water can carry a lot of heat, is cheap and readily available, non-polluting, non-toxic, easy to pump, easy to plumb, and liquid at temps convenient for heating and cooling.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#138

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #118

larrywright wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is more true is that typical furnace designs remove moisture from the air that they heat. Most comfortable place I ever lived in, heating wise, was an old house that had been converted into apartments. It still had steam heat. I loved that.

A furnace doesn't remove moisture. Steam heat is radiant which feels very good. Nothing to do with moisture added, steam heat is almost always a closed loop so no water is put into the air.

1-pipe steam has to have vents at the radiator which do let a small amount of water vapor into the room (despite being mostly closed loop). 2-pipe steam does not have this limitation.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#139

Post by nine_k » Fri, Sep 04, 2020, 12:03 AM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #2

I like that the schematics are included on the air conditioner. I have a few older appliances like this that have it, and it has helped me a few times replacing/diagnosing parts. I laughed a bit where he explains about "Humidity" and the temperature. I know Americans are fat and lazy and love our AC's, but if you spend any time on the east coast, it's a giant swamp. Life is pretty insufferable without an AC when you…

Actually, going to the office on a July morning in NYC feels very much like you're in e.g. Hong Kong; if you cross e.g. the Brooklyn bridge, you also see the typical haze of very high humidity over the water. Sometimes it's an actual fog at, say, 80-85F around.

At least it's picturesque at times.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#140

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Fri, Sep 04, 2020, 12:27 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #137

shajznnckfke wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you have a split AC system with a big centralized compressor?

You could, but chilled water circulation is the more typical heat transfer medium in central, building-wide units. Water can carry a lot of heat, is cheap and readily available, non-polluting, non-toxic, easy to pump, easy to plumb, and liquid at temps convenient for heating and cooling.

The first apartment building I lived in in NY had this. The only downside was that if the board put off maintenance so long that one summer the cooling towers were busted, then they waited until may to start the project to replace them, then an early heat wave came, it could be darn uncomfortable for a week or two. (That did indeed happen, just like I told it.)