Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup • Hacker News Board

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#121

Post by outworlder » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer.

Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A.

> HN is mostly a US based website

This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of readers from all around the world.

> Secondly - you're not hanging air conditioning units off the exterior walls of the apartment

In the US. This is not particular to Japan. In fact, I'd argue that this is the most common air-conditioner setup worldwide, with building in many countries providing supports for either split systems or, more commonly, 'window' units.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#122

Post by thaumasiotes » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #106

thaumasiotes wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was explained to me once that there are Asian (specifically, Chinese) attitudes towards thrift that make it inconceivable/impossible to pay for AC that someone else might be using (or misusing). I don't know how true that is. I don't know how true it is either, but I can provide some mild support. Several years ago a vicious heat wave hit Shanghai, and the subway stations filled with people taking advantage of t…

I've heard of people doing this in malls, but subway stations is a bit weird for sure. Movie theaters in the US were very popular prior to prevalent home AC for much the same reason.

Malls are far away. Your local subway station is necessarily nearby.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#123

Post by philwelch » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

l3s2d wrote: post #120

rsync wrote: post #24

Having individual heating and cooling units ( per unit gas heaters! ) is stupendously inefficient. I travel in Asia fairly regularly so this isn't new to me, but even after all of these years I can't believe I continue to see shiny, brand new "high end" condo buildings in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul, etc., with individual AC units hanging out the window. Contrast this with a condo in Minneapolis that I own wher…

The bit about attitudes towards shared payments is fascinating. I wonder if this is truly attitude or just lack of choice. Are there any concrete examples of existing systems where people choose to pay more when the alternatives are significantly cheaper but pricing is shared? Hypothetical example scenario: Someone would choose to pay $10 for their own water instead of $2.50 (on average, with minor fluctuations), in…

Human intuitions about fairness are not always Pareto-optimal.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#124

Post by nonbirithm » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly aren't any already existing. I've never seen or heard of that in the USA - particularly for apartments.

This is allowed in my apartment. My closest neighbor cut a hole in the door leading outside and affixed an air conditioner to it, then made a setup of plastic bagging to make it lead all the way to their bedroom across the living space. In fact multiple other renters on the first floor did exactly the same thing.

It's a relatively expensive place in Washington at around $2,200/mo market price.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and the hole in the door existed before. I'll have to ask the next time I see them.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#125

Post by brendawalsh » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:06 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #121

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A. > HN is mostly a US based website This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of…

These minisplit units are typically, at least 9k to 12k BTUs, and if it a multi-zone unit it can be 24k or more.

I have yet to see a portable AC in the US that is more than 12k btus and as quiet as a mini-split.

Mini-splits are more popular now in the US, but, for whatever reason, the US is really into ducted systems.

I never understood why putting an air duct in a hot attic and an air handler in a hot garage made any sense.

You do have me curious on traffic stats for HN by country, though.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#126

Post by brendawalsh » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #58

amluto wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having individual heating and cooling units (per unit gas heaters!) is stupendously inefficient. > Contrast this with a condo in Minneapolis that I own wherein heat and AC are central in the building and individual units can set their temperature to whatever they like - all run with tremendously higher efficiency. This needs some real data. There are a few central technologies that might be used. A condensing gas-f…

"This needs some real data." I agree and I, admittedly, have none. I will say, however, that a deeper dive into these efficiencies would also have to take into account the production, distribution and installation costs (embedded pollution, not dollars) of several hundred little devices vs. a single plant that is integrated into each unit during building construction. Even considering room by room optimization (turni…

I was gonna say, the outlay of capital for a building-wide hydronic system and an evaporative tower, versus each owner be responsible for their AC, I can see why that would be possible.

Particularly if the building is older.

Also, I am curious why there are multiple single condensor units in lieu of multizone units...I guess it is financially easier to purchase one unit at a time.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#127

Post by brendawalsh » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #113

sgc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For heat pumps more outdoor units is definitely more efficient, since the outdoor unit needs to be big enough to accommodate all connected indoor units at once, and will be on even if only one is in use. Two per unit is my go to trade off on that one, with an attempt to group together units that are more likely to be used at the same time (so no bedroom / living room split, try to stick with bedroom/bedroom and livin…

those ceiling mount units ... not sized for typical US construction techniques, so installing them in an existing ceiling can be quite complex. If you're doing new construction, it is possible to correctly frame up the ceiling so that installing them becomes trivial.

There are two kinds available currently for ceiling.

The cassette, that would fit into a drop ceiling, and there is also a mini-ducted unit, installed in the ceiling with small-run ducted ports.

My favorite are the ones that look like picture frames.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#128

Post by bradlys » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:20 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #121

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

> Most of these units are 220V and usually there is only one or two 220V power outlets in American homes these days and they're always dedicated to the washer+dryer. Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A. > HN is mostly a US based website This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of…

> Meh. Only relevant if you need to pull more than 15A or so. There are plenty of portable air conditioners for sale in the US and most are happy with 110V and less than 15A.

You don't really know if people are happy with what they have. They just get what they get because that's all they can do. If your building outlaws window units, just because they have portable units - does that mean they're happy with a portable unit?

> This sounds like gatekeeping. There are lots of readers from all around the world.

American readership dwarfs every other country and region. It doesn't matter if there are "lots" of others when it's a US based website. YCombinator itself is mostly about investing in US based companies. Just look at the number it invests in in the US vs every other place. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/ It isn't gatekeeping - I'm asking for someone to put in a more accurate title. After all - if I put "Rules of the road" up and it was Japan's rules of the road on an American website, it would be misleading. One would be expecting something relevant to the website they're reading it on (an American one!) while reading it but - instead - it isn't. Thus, bad title! It would be better to say, "Rules of the road in Japan".

> In the US.

How many times did I reference the USA in my comment? Five times. Guess I should have done six so that people wouldn't get confused about where I was talking about!

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#129

Post by perennate » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #103

Someone said Japan used to be in the title - and now that it isn't - I think it should go back. HN is mostly a US based website (with an emphasis on Silicon Valley). This methodology is wildly uncommon in the US. There's very little likelihood this kind of thing would happen in well over 90%+ of the USA. First off - if you're renting - you're not putting holes in the walls that go to the exterior and there certainly…

Most of the blog post was about reverse engineering the control protocol and automating the unit. The same principles could be applied to other A/C units, like window units that are ubiquitous in many parts of the US. It is not specific to split system, they didn't even install it themselves, that was a minor part of the blog post. Also, their methodology of writing their own software is uncommon anywhere, even in Japan; but that's true of many things that get posted here, that's what makes them interesting.

Re: Home Office Projects Series: Air conditioner setup

#130

Post by michaelt » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

l3s2d wrote: post #120

rsync wrote: post #24

Having individual heating and cooling units ( per unit gas heaters! ) is stupendously inefficient. I travel in Asia fairly regularly so this isn't new to me, but even after all of these years I can't believe I continue to see shiny, brand new "high end" condo buildings in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul, etc., with individual AC units hanging out the window. Contrast this with a condo in Minneapolis that I own wher…

The bit about attitudes towards shared payments is fascinating. I wonder if this is truly attitude or just lack of choice. Are there any concrete examples of existing systems where people choose to pay more when the alternatives are significantly cheaper but pricing is shared? Hypothetical example scenario: Someone would choose to pay $10 for their own water instead of $2.50 (on average, with minor fluctuations), in…

> Are there any concrete examples of existing systems where people choose to pay more when the alternatives are significantly cheaper but pricing is shared?

American healthcare? :-p