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Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

press-pubs.uchicago.edu

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Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#81

Post by minimuffins »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #46

News organizations have to compete for people's attention so they present the news in a way that impacts people's emotions most strongly. Fear is a favorite subject. Most news is framed in a way that highlights how it MAY negatively effect the reader. FEAR is a very effective way to get and keep people's attention. Also, the news has to compete with entertainment so it's entertaining. It's the first "Reality TV." You…

This post is unfairly downvoted. Downvoting is for content that violates community norms. This post doesn't do that.

If you don't agree, just say why. Don't downvote.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#82

Post by mike-cardwell »

dalbasal wrote: post #25

When I was 15, there was a bus bombing near my school. A kid in my class was the grandson of a well known politician. A newspaper ran with a completely made up story about how it was his bus line, and how the grandfather had panicked. A few days later a fact checker called his mom. Not sure if they ran a retraction. It seemed incredibly disrespectful to those who were on the bus. Two died. About a year after that, so…

The one time that something newsworthy happened in my life, we didn't speak to the press, because we didn't particularly want to. That's not a problem for them though, they literally just printed errors and completely made up quotes from us instead.

I guess I should be thankful. It's a valuable lesson to learn at a young age.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#83

Post by foobiekr »

dalbasal wrote: post #25

When I was 15, there was a bus bombing near my school. A kid in my class was the grandson of a well known politician. A newspaper ran with a completely made up story about how it was his bus line, and how the grandfather had panicked. A few days later a fact checker called his mom. Not sure if they ran a retraction. It seemed incredibly disrespectful to those who were on the bus. Two died. About a year after that, so…

On the contrary, lots of people think "Tiger King" is an honest telling.

Spend a little time on /r/conspiracy and consider that most of these people are not joking and their thinking is _entirely_ narrative driven.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#84

Post by 082349872349872 »

blhack wrote: post #78

It's just so sad. The biggest one lately for me has been watching the riots which are happening all over the US. The really crazy thing is that all of these things are livestreamed usually by 10s of people in every city, who are standing a few feet from the people burning buildings and attacking people. You can virtually attend all of these things from your office. To watch buildings burning, people chanting that the…

I would bet the press is talking about different people than the ones you are watching.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#85

Post by liability »

clairity wrote: post #77
liability wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I think they have approximately the same content and biases as CNN. I think they come out better than CNN because they have better writers and editors. CNN articles seem like they were written by highschoolers and rubber stamped by editors who can't be bothered to read anything.

i guess our differing opinions turn on what "better" means. to me, a better writer, and especially a better editor, would correct those unsubstantiated embellishments and biases. so it's a distinction without a difference to me.

There are many ways in which something might be judged and therefore many ways in which something might be called 'better.' I am not saying the NYTimes is better than CNN in terms of what biases they have, what stories they choose to cover or what embellishments they add. I am not saying they have better fact checking. I am essentially saying CNN's articles are written for a less literate audience and they have lazy editors who let poor writing slide. I am not taking about their fact checking or factual accuracy.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#86

Post by simonsarris »

loughnane wrote: post #58

This dovetails with something I've been thinking much about recently: providing a classical education, or at least a dose of it, to my kids. Jefferson was a big proponent of this as well [0] My reasoning is that there are few other venues that young people, in their formative years, encounter such examples of deep critical thinking. I used to think it snobbery to reference Socrates/Plato/Aristotle, etc. But reading t…

A classical and a mythological education are both important and missing today. I wrote recently:

> A mythological education is distinct from the common school subjects. It builds in the mind intuition for second-order effects, for the first lesson a child learns from one hundred stories is that every thing you do will have unintended consequences, something years of schoolwork fails to teach. Myths give us shared art and common culture—a set of characters with which we can play in and enjoy together. In any culture rich with myths, their vocabulary is enlarged far beyond words, to allegories and metaphors. The quality of thought follows.

(To this end I've been writing a book of fables, mostly for my children, but serializing them by newsletter right now, which is turning out more popular than I expected.)

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#87

Post by antipaul »

loughnane wrote: post #58

This dovetails with something I've been thinking much about recently: providing a classical education, or at least a dose of it, to my kids. Jefferson was a big proponent of this as well [0] My reasoning is that there are few other venues that young people, in their formative years, encounter such examples of deep critical thinking. I used to think it snobbery to reference Socrates/Plato/Aristotle, etc. But reading t…

We have a hard time talking to each other these days (eg, Republicans vs Democrats in US).

So I also feel that education, specifically a liberal arts foundation, could broaden people’s minds so that we’re not just shouting at each other, but can actually converse as somewhat rational beings.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#88

Post by disown »

altcognito wrote: post #4
dimitrios1 wrote: post #2

> The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knolege with the lies of the day Well ain't this the cold, hard truth, eh HN? How many times have we seen science and technology just completely butchered, twisted, manipulated, or sometimes, all three, by the "truth-seeking journalists" over there at the establishment media companies? Yet we…

More dangerous are the people who would implore you to ignore all sources from what they perceive are enemies and pay attention only to their (or your own) bubble and prejudices. Posts with catch phrases like "establishment media companies" are usually a red flag. This submissions feels more like launching point for arguing, little value to community.

> More dangerous are the people who would implore you to ignore all sources from what they perceive are enemies and pay attention only to their (or your own) bubble and prejudices.

Okay.

> Posts with catch phrases like "establishment media companies" are usually a red flag.

Wait. Aren't you doing what you say is the "more dangerous"?

> This submissions feels more like launching point for arguing, little value to community.

So lets nip it in the bud and prevent discussion? Your comment feels like an attempt to curtail an interesting discussion before it happens because it threatens your own bubble and prejudices.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#89

Post by [deleted] »

dalbasal wrote: post #25

When I was 15, there was a bus bombing near my school. A kid in my class was the grandson of a well known politician. A newspaper ran with a completely made up story about how it was his bus line, and how the grandfather had panicked. A few days later a fact checker called his mom. Not sure if they ran a retraction. It seemed incredibly disrespectful to those who were on the bus. Two died. About a year after that, so…

[deleted]

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#90

Post by luckylion »

ardy42 wrote: post #68
goodluckchuck wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh... Even CNN admits that the following headline is a lie... Let's follow the rabbit trail: > Trump suggests voters should commit fraud The source that article links is another one of CNN's own articles: > Trump appears to encourage North Carolinians to vote twice to test the system The first paragraph of that article then gets closer to the truth: > President Donald Trump on Wednesday appeared to encourage people…

> Moreover... "Appeared." If the author believes Trump was saying that, then say Trump said it. However, the author knows that's not true, so the author said he "appeared" / his words could be twisted. Utter cowardice. Trump is so confused and unclear sometimes that it's hard to tell exactly what he's trying to say, hence the "appeared.". What he says is newsworthy, and some of the most likely interpretations are sho…

> Trump is so confused and unclear sometimes that it's hard to tell exactly what he's trying to say, hence the "appeared.".

It's irrelevant what he's "trying to say". If he writes "covfefe", the accurate reporting is "he wrote covfefe", not "he appeared to have written covfefe".

Qualifying something with "he appeared to say" is just a way to write anything. Turns out it's not at all what he said? "Well, it appeared that way to me, don't tell me how I have to perceive reality!"

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