Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 74 posts

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#51

Post by ponker »

locallost wrote: post #10

Where I live in Germany, small traditional butchers and bakers etc. are also closing down, but not for the lack of customers. They get too old, and nobody wants to take over. About 8 or so years ago, a baker closed at the city center, replaced by a chain, and a friend lamented how traditional bakers can't keep up with the chains that basically put frozen products in the oven. Her father laughed and said the place was…

This is what is happening to a lot of US Chinese restaurants. The parents slaved away at the woks for 40 years but made sure to get their kids well educated so there are no kids to take over, the kids are doctors or engineers. This is the outcome the parents wanted, they’re closing their restaurants with no regrets.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#52

Post by ponker »

jon-wood wrote: post #37
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #22

> "So they say you can’t close. And I think, well, come and spend your money with me instead, then." You get this all over the small picturesque villages in the UK, people love the idea of village shops and village pubs but few are willing to put any money behind them. Remember my parents remarking that their neighbors where sad the village pub was closing down, my parents thinking its ridiculous because they only se…

I saw this a while ago with a startup I was working for, we did online grocery delivery for butchers, bakers, greengrocers and the like. Eventually we had to shut down because we ran out of money, but we did one final week of deliveries - that week was the biggest week we ever did, and the first to make a profit, if all the people saying how sad they were to see us go and making one last order had just used us instea…

I’d be willing to spend some extra money on a one-time artisanal steak or loaf, that doesn’t mean I can or will spend that every week.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#53

Post by tweetle_beetle »

Dronfield is no longer really a market town in the sense of being a bit isolated and independent - it's becoming an increasingly expensive suburb for people who commute to the two large urban areas which it virtually touches. I suspect that most people who live are used to driving a fair bit and doing a "big shop".

Widespread private transport means that people don't _have_ to use local shops any more, so they need to find a way to differentiate themselves from the supermarkets. An independent butcher could thrive there, but, unfortunately, probably not as an "everyday shop". Like many of these places, the route to success is to embrace the gentrification and move up the quality ladder, marketing themselves as a premium option and making local people feel good about making the effort to go (and probably spending more money).

Weirdly online is a massive driver for that kind of business, but could be a struggle for older generations(?). Without wanting being too prejudiced, most working 80+ year olds are unlikely to be posting pictures of their produce on Instagram, replying to reviews on Google Maps or having a stylish little Squarespace site explaining how they get their lamb from farmer Dave who lives with his wife and lovely children and rare breed animals on Daisy Farm just a couple of miles away.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#54

Post by war1025 »

tweetle_beetle wrote: post #53

Dronfield is no longer really a market town in the sense of being a bit isolated and independent - it's becoming an increasingly expensive suburb for people who commute to the two large urban areas which it virtually touches. I suspect that most people who live are used to driving a fair bit and doing a "big shop". Widespread private transport means that people don't _have_ to use local shops any more, so they need t…

Growing up in one small town in the Midwest, and currently living in a slightly larger but less vibrant small town in the Midwest, the internet is the driving factor for most of the small businesses that I see thriving here.

Being able to do online sales, and have a small storefront where you keep your inventory and also have a showroom for the public seems to be a winning combination.

But running a small business takes a certain level of stubbornness, and it's often easier to just check out and take an office job.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#55

Post by earthboundkid »

Xylakant wrote: post #50
2trill2spill wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective that seems heavily over regulated. As long as the bread is made in a sanitary fashion and doesn't make people sick, why should a baker be expected to go through so much training/schooling?

Meisterschule does not primarily teach you how to make bread. That’s the part before. It also teaches you how to educate new apprentices, how to run a business, etc. Maybe it’s over regulated, but on the other hand, we require solid education for a lot of professions. As long as the bridge doesn’t collapse, why should we expect an engineer to go through that much education? It’s only math and textbooks are freely ava…

Watching doctors google stuff really makes you worry about the medical equivalent of StackOverflow code.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#56

Post by kwhitefoot »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #22

> "So they say you can’t close. And I think, well, come and spend your money with me instead, then." You get this all over the small picturesque villages in the UK, people love the idea of village shops and village pubs but few are willing to put any money behind them. Remember my parents remarking that their neighbors where sad the village pub was closing down, my parents thinking its ridiculous because they only se…

The guy who runs the oldest supermarket in the little town where I live says: "If you want a shop to be here tomorrow buy something in it today."

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#57

Post by x87678r »

2trill2spill wrote: post #49
Xylakant wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to have what's called "Meisterbrief" to run a bakery. That's the equivalent of having studied. You need 3 years of apprenticeship, then you make what's called "Gesellenprüfung", then you need to work at least 2 years in a bakery and then you need to go back to school for two years. That's quite some effort and it's not lacking formal qualifications. Also, running a bakery is a fairly capital-heavy investment…

From my perspective that seems heavily over regulated. As long as the bread is made in a sanitary fashion and doesn't make people sick, why should a baker be expected to go through so much training/schooling?

Welcome to Europe. High quality everything comes at a price.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#58

Post by razakel »

avhception wrote: post #34
dmurray wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often the people who are willing to work long hours and lack formal qualifications are immigrants. Maybe there are not enough immigrants in your town? Or they would have needed to start as apprentices 5 years ago, and it's hard for them to get into the apprentice system?

> hard for them to get into the apprentice system? Speaking as a German, it's also a failure to integrate these people properly. The small bakery in my home town closed down, too. Immigrants are in no short supply, but there are a few factors that prevent them from taking on a venture like that: - They're generally forbidden to work until their formal immigration process has made enough progress in our bureaucracy, w…

It very much sounds as if you're confusing immigrants and refugees here.

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#59

Post by 2trill2spill »

Xylakant wrote: post #50
2trill2spill wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective that seems heavily over regulated. As long as the bread is made in a sanitary fashion and doesn't make people sick, why should a baker be expected to go through so much training/schooling?

Meisterschule does not primarily teach you how to make bread. That’s the part before. It also teaches you how to educate new apprentices, how to run a business, etc. Maybe it’s over regulated, but on the other hand, we require solid education for a lot of professions. As long as the bridge doesn’t collapse, why should we expect an engineer to go through that much education? It’s only math and textbooks are freely ava…

There's a big difference in requiring a doctor or a engineer to have schooling, people could die. But if people eat a crappy loaf of bread who cares?

Re: The butcher's shop that lasted 300 years (give or take)

#60

Post by qihqi »

lqet wrote: post #47
locallost wrote: post #10

Where I live in Germany, small traditional butchers and bakers etc. are also closing down, but not for the lack of customers. They get too old, and nobody wants to take over. About 8 or so years ago, a baker closed at the city center, replaced by a chain, and a friend lamented how traditional bakers can't keep up with the chains that basically put frozen products in the oven. Her father laughed and said the place was…

This is not only a problem with bakeries or butchers (I also know of two shops here and in my home village who closed down not because business was bad, but because it was so good they retired in their mid-fifties - and nobody wanted to take over). Old restaurants and pubs have the same problem.

hmmm it seems a good opportunity to connect profitable businesses to potential investors that would want to take over?
Post reply on HN