Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#11
post #2

Writing is creative and typically produces a final product that is subjective. However there are components of writing such as spelling that are not subjective. It seems reasonable to me to say that he is a popular writer and subjectively good and that he is an objectively good speller.

counterpoint: intentional misspelling to convey a specific dialect or affect.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#12

Yes, as long you properly define what it means to be good and make sure it's measurable. Tolkien is a good writer when we define 'good writer' as a writer whose stories are enjoyed by millions of people, or a writer who is capable of supporting themselves financially by writing fiction. One of the definitions of good is 'having the qualities required for a particular role', which is pretty explicit in requiring someo…

> Yes, as long you properly define what it means to be good and make sure it's measurable.

In this case it's no longer about being "good", it's just about "how does it measure according to a rule?"

See Vincent van Gogh.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#13
post #2

Writing is creative and typically produces a final product that is subjective. However there are components of writing such as spelling that are not subjective. It seems reasonable to me to say that he is a popular writer and subjectively good and that he is an objectively good speller.

counterpoint: intentional misspelling to convey a specific dialect or affect.

i.e., the subjective quality of the work is enhanced by intentional introduction of "inaccurate" or low-objective-quality spelling.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#14
Some kinds of performance are measurable. Tell me how long it takes you to run a 5K race and I can tell if you are a "good" runner.

In the case of literature you can't stop someone from having a crackpot opinions such as "Tolkien sux because stories about 'other worlds' are escapist and distract workers from class struggles" or "I hate Tolkien because he inspired DanMachi and other sick anime that my boyfriend watches".

The value of Tolkien as a writer goes beyond "he sold a lot of books" to the influence he had with other writers. He was a pagan but certainly had common cause with his Christian friend C.S. Lewis when it came to the books they wrote. Whether or not you think Tolkien's influence is good or fair, it is objective that the influence was vast.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#15
post #7

Only if that something that someone does is objectively measurable. Usain Bolt, Michael Jordan, objectively the best at what they do.

Best doesn't mean good - as others (and you) said, to be able to claim "objectively good" you need to define what "objectively good" means and how you measure it. You can say "good runner = can run 100m in less than 10s" and then Usain Bolt it good; or you can put the threshold at 9s (nobody is good) or 30s (even I am good).

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#17

Some kinds of performance are measurable. Tell me how long it takes you to run a 5K race and I can tell if you are a "good" runner. In the case of literature you can't stop someone from having a crackpot opinions such as "Tolkien sux because stories about 'other worlds' are escapist and distract workers from class struggles" or "I hate Tolkien because he inspired DanMachi and other sick anime that my boyfriend watche…

> He was a pagan

This gave me pause.

"Tolkien's Roman Catholicism was a significant factor in C. S. Lewis's conversion from atheism to Christianity, although Tolkien was dismayed that Lewis chose to join the Church of England."[0]

[0] - https://www.wikiwand.com/en/J._R._R._Tolkien#/Religion

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#18
I think for any sufficiently complex human activity, including writing, musicianship, or performance in a sport, there's no way to be objectively good at every aspect of it, and there's no one measure that captures all the different possible ways to excel. Overall performance is a complicated mix of competencies, some of which are easier to measure objectively than others. Different observers will judge the "goodness" differently based on which sub-tasks they consider more important. Even among the "greats", you can point to sub-areas that they don't do as well.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to be objectively good at something?

#20
My opinion is that it is possible. But if you are rigorous about what "good" and "bad" means, then no because there's always going to be someone who thinks different. Can we say Mozart was a good composer? I'm pretty sure you can find music experts who would say no, even though the majority would say yes. I personally don't like the idea that art evaluation is completely subjective because then I can just spit on a canvas and say it's art and you don't have arguments to say it's bad art when in reality we "know" it's bad. Happens a lot with music.
Post reply on HN