U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#91

Post by havetocharge » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #74

parsimo2010 wrote: post #22

Since there are multiple comments about how the US government must/should pardon Snowden now, I'd like to make a top level comment to clarify some things about how this does not obligate the government to change his status. 1. The court only found that a single program exposed by Snowden was illegal. Snowden released a bunch of other information that was a violation of the NDA he signed when he was given a security c…

Simple solution: Donald Trump puts his money where is mouth is, pardons him and repatriates him.

Right after he releases his tax records following the completion of the Mexican wall.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#92

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

borg_ wrote: post #61

parsimo2010 wrote: post #22

Since there are multiple comments about how the US government must/should pardon Snowden now, I'd like to make a top level comment to clarify some things about how this does not obligate the government to change his status. 1. The court only found that a single program exposed by Snowden was illegal. Snowden released a bunch of other information that was a violation of the NDA he signed when he was given a security c…

Makes you wonder what was the motivation behind creating "Whistleblower protection" program in the first place.

Legal Theatre.

Bureaucratic / political butt covering theatre.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#93

Post by acqq » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

polytely wrote: post #45

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Clarification: He was in Russia when the US cancelled his passport stranding him there, his intended destination was Ecuador. I think stranding him in Russia was a deliberate choice to discredit Snowden and it seems to be working very well.

While Ecuador was a good choice then, it changed since: see the fate of Julian Assange.

The last update on how he is treated:

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252487666/US-decision-to...

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#94

Post by 627467 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #22

Since there are multiple comments about how the US government must/should pardon Snowden now, I'd like to make a top level comment to clarify some things about how this does not obligate the government to change his status. 1. The court only found that a single program exposed by Snowden was illegal. Snowden released a bunch of other information that was a violation of the NDA he signed when he was given a security c…

Non-us citizen nor lawyer, but doesn't a pardon require a conviction? Has Snowden been convicted?

Does _anything_ obligates the President to pardon anyone?

And why would those points you listed invalidate a pardon? If Snowden was considered (by courts, government) to be a whistle blower by legal definition, he wouldn't need a pardon, right?

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#95

Post by merricksb » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:57 PM UTC

Huge discussion still active on the front page:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24356741

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#96

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

metiscus wrote: post #84

natcombs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it sounds like a rogue IC agency. The textbook definition of fascism doesn’t apply here. This word keeps appearing on HN without any reasoning

In the modern zeitgeist anything authoritarian or that can be interpreted from the center-left to be slightly right of center is being called fascism as shorthand for "bad policy I disagree with". The conflation of authoritarianism vs policy difference is where some danger lies.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#97

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

naringas wrote: post #90

chrisbennet wrote: post #44

I doubt Snowden was ignorant about what happened to those who "followed the rules". Their lives were ruined and nothing changed. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon... . "None of the lawful whistleblowers who tried to expose the government’s warrantless surveillance – and Drake was far from the only one who tried – had any success,” Devine told me. “They came forward and made their charges, b…

how's is Snowden any different? he had to go live in exile and nothing changed

The point was about the trust in government's response. The other one tried to play nice. At least Snowden didn't let the system crush him for free.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#98

Post by oxymoran » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

Ok but what is going to change? Is anybody going to be held accountable? Is Snowden going to be pardoned? If the answer is no to any/all of this, then this is just window dressing.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#99

Post by 627467 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:04 PM UTC

polytely wrote: post #45

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Clarification: He was in Russia when the US cancelled his passport stranding him there, his intended destination was Ecuador. I think stranding him in Russia was a deliberate choice to discredit Snowden and it seems to be working very well.

What leads you to perceive that being stranded in Russia is discrediting Snowden?

I don't doubt that (almost) any other American taking shelter in Russia would make a dent on their reputation in US, but I'm curious about Snowden specifically. IMO, Those who know what he did and how he did (in general) seem to support him. A minority hates him. But the rest of public opinion?

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#100

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

metiscus wrote: post #84

natcombs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it sounds like a rogue IC agency. The textbook definition of fascism doesn’t apply here. This word keeps appearing on HN without any reasoning

In the modern zeitgeist anything authoritarian or that can be interpreted from the center-left to be slightly right of center is being called fascism as shorthand for "bad policy I disagree with". The conflation of authoritarianism vs policy difference is where some danger lies.

[deleted]