Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#51

Post by podgaj » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:58 AM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #27

This strikes me as a pretty clumsy article. > What if mental disorders like anxiety, depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder aren’t mental disorders at all? Of course they're disorders. That's why they deserve treatment. This bears no connection to the question of whether they're adaptive. Our capacity for physical pain is adaptive, but doctors still treat pain. > With a thorough review of the evidence, they sh…

And who is to say CBT does not effect chemicals in the brain and body! Of course it does! everything environmental effects the chemicals in our body. If you give someone meth they will have anxiety, if you drink too much you will have depression.

The state of understanding the gene-environment interaction is so backwards and slow to catch up with the science it is a crime.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#52

Post by slfnflctd » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

At first I viewed the depression I started fighting in my teens as a scourge, a defect, something broken to be fixed.

I have since come to see it as an important signal. When I am managing my life and mental states well, it often fades into the background. When it starts to flare up, like with some kind of physical pain, that's telling me I need to pay attention and change things up a bit.

Furthermore - and perhaps most importantly - it is a preferred failure mode to freaking out or engaging in suicidal ideation. When I'm overwhelmed by that gloom, I remind myself that I could have a stroke, aneurysm or heart attack at any moment, and I think about what the consequences would be if I did. As long as I'm in a safe situation, I can simply take my first opportunity to Just. Stop. Taking time to shut down, and to cease forcing yourself to engage with a world that would go on without you if you suddenly died, is a good idea now & then.

Yeah, at times I feel some twinges of guilt for doing this. It seems selfish on the surface. But when you compare it to the alternatives, well-- it's better than being dead, isn't it? I feel like my ability to manage my life (and depression) has improved considerably with this insight. If you need to stop, stop. Rest. Let whatever is pushing you to the brink simmer in a corner for a while, provided it is physically safe to do so. You will be better equipped to deal with it when you've had a chance to breathe, and to remind yourself that a temporary shutdown is indeed better than being dead.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#53

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:03 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #7

framecowbird wrote: post #4

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

One thing that I learned during my psychology degrees that always stuck with me was that mildly depressed people are measurably better at judging probabilities of things happening. (Unfortunately I can't remember off the top of my head the structure of the study, or how much better they were). I wonder if that might fit into this, in that if you're mildly depressed presumably bad things are happening to you, so perha…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#54

Post by grugagag » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:08 PM UTC

karlerss wrote: post #28

b0rsuk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading an article like that. Also, it's a bit of a meme that if depression was 100% harmful then it would already be eliminated by evolution. I mean why shouldn't people prone to depression die off? Don't make a mistake, I'm still working on improving my life and uncovering the root causes. It is a silent thief of life.

> I mean why shouldn't people prone to depression die off? "Having a child will make me happy". And hell, maybe it will - it's the perfect ruse by our genes - keep us depressed until we reproduce.

Or maybe we leading a path in life with no meaning causes us to be depressed and seek a solution. Having a child puts one in the present moment and does give some meaning back though is not a cure for depression. I highly doubt the genetics make us depressed to have children.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#55

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:10 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #7

framecowbird wrote: post #4

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

One thing that I learned during my psychology degrees that always stuck with me was that mildly depressed people are measurably better at judging probabilities of things happening. (Unfortunately I can't remember off the top of my head the structure of the study, or how much better they were). I wonder if that might fit into this, in that if you're mildly depressed presumably bad things are happening to you, so perha…

I think there is also data that intelligent people are more susceptible to depression, so that might influence that result. Cannot find the source of it though.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#56

Post by anoonmoose » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:11 PM UTC

ddorian43 wrote: post #29

ferros wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling somebody else they are wrong about their own personal experience deserves a downvote, which I don't have enough points to give you.

Here's a personal anecdote when I realized that perhaps "knee medical issues" are not "medical issues" at all: I was once running and my knee started hurting. I kept running and it kept hurting. I then saw that the reason my knee kept hurting was because I was using the wrong shoe, or was running not at the right form. After I changed these, the knee didn't hurt no more. Had I gone to a physiotherapist or an orthoped…

How do you know they wouldn't have told you to use better shoes or better form? This isn't even an anecdote, it's more like half of one.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#57

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:13 PM UTC

raducu wrote: post #13

framecowbird wrote: post #4

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

Because this actually IS the prevailing view, but it is not really actionable. What is the alternative to drugs? A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority so you'll be more likely to appease the Alpha members of the group. So what? How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?

> What is the alternative to drugs?

A social safety net. A society that thinks providing the communication resources and facilities for people with common interests to socialize about those interests is as important as providing highways.

> How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?

You don't have to be a doctor to dispense pills. You can always anesthetize people who are panicking, but I'm not sure that should be called "treatment."

Talking therapy probably works because it's the opportunity to talk to someone with no ulterior motives at length about your problems. We could provide that.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#58

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:13 PM UTC

anoonmoose wrote: post #56

ddorian43 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a personal anecdote when I realized that perhaps "knee medical issues" are not "medical issues" at all: I was once running and my knee started hurting. I kept running and it kept hurting. I then saw that the reason my knee kept hurting was because I was using the wrong shoe, or was running not at the right form. After I changed these, the knee didn't hurt no more. Had I gone to a physiotherapist or an orthoped…

How do you know they wouldn't have told you to use better shoes or better form? This isn't even an anecdote, it's more like half of one.

[deleted]

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#59

Post by billman » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:15 PM UTC

Another thing to think about is that these responses may cross generations. i.e the anxiety someone experiences today may be due to trauma suffered by thier grandparents. The mind is a wonderful thing, but there is so much that we don't understand about it/ourselves.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#60

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:17 PM UTC

leto_ii wrote: post #16

Here's a personal anecdote of the moment when I realized that perhaps mental disorders are not disorders at all: A few years ago I had a job that made me deeply unhappy. The unhappiness came about gradually, but in my last year there it was overwhelming. In my last year on the job I spent a good chunk of my working hours holding back feelings of deep frustration and anger over how things were progressing and over how…

> I probably would have still been in the job I actually hated

If modern psychology has any goals, they are 1) to keep you at work with minimal days off and high productivity, and 2) to keep you from annoying your family. You would have been a success story.