Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#181

Post by Voliokis » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 5:17 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #153

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

>(the 10300-10900k are all the same chip with different parts turned off due to manufacturing errors) Wow. Is this a relatively new phenomenon, or something that's been the norm in processor mfg for a long time? I know that the Ks were usually just binned/higher tested chips so they'd unlock those and charge a premium for them, but the idea that they're disabling parts of the die and separating the chip offering that…

It's been done for as long as I can remember.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_binning

Iirc, early Celeron were often just Pentiums with defective (and disabled) cache

Edit: https://www.anandtech.com/show/568/2

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#182

Post by wmf » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

fomine3 wrote: post #177

cma wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claims they are announcing and not actually launching. No dates or prices: https://semiaccurate.com/2020/09/02/intel-doesnt-actually-la...

> SemiAccurate's checks with OEMs all say they Intel is shorting them on supply by 7-digit numbers in several cases. I'm not good at English, What means this sentence?

It means Intel is shipping millions fewer processors than customers ordered.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#183

Post by cercatrova » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 5:40 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #153

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

>(the 10300-10900k are all the same chip with different parts turned off due to manufacturing errors) Wow. Is this a relatively new phenomenon, or something that's been the norm in processor mfg for a long time? I know that the Ks were usually just binned/higher tested chips so they'd unlock those and charge a premium for them, but the idea that they're disabling parts of the die and separating the chip offering that…

This price differentiation actually occurs in all products and companies. Look at SaaS, it's all the same software product but features are selectively enabled for higher-paying customers.

Something that's different between software and hardware such as chips are that the chips that have things disabled are done so because those disabled parts actually don't work. If you only yield 2 out of 4 cores, it's easier to just make it a dual-core CPU rather than throw the chip away.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#184

Post by nullify88 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:07 AM UTC

badsectoracula wrote: post #130

ehvatum wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120Hz is incredible for gaming. Unity and Unreal Engine dynamically scale tessellation and many other things to accommodate hardware performance, so as to maintain FPS on high-refresh screens. The polygon counts, texture detail, AI complexity of modern games is bonkers, but multiple moon landings of engineering time has gone into keeping solid 100Hz+ frame rates. However, you are definitely correct when it comes to G…

> 120Hz is incredible for gaming. ...if you're playing with v-sync :-P. I got a (rather expensive too) 165Hz monitor recently and the main benefit is to lessen the lag that Windows' forced composition (which also does v-sync) has. But in games i always played with v-sync turned off (i do not mind the tearing, unless it only happens at a fixed position i never really notice it) and the responsiveness was already very…

> if you're playing with v-sync

High refresh rate monitors tend to support freesync or Gsync. For minimum latency disable vsync, enable free / gsync. Only enable vsync if your fps is above the monitors refresh rate. Alternatively you can enable a framerate limit just below the refresh rate.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#185

Post by elgatoblanco » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:15 AM UTC

greggman3 wrote: post #170

josephg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I accidentally left my laptop at work, and couldn't program over a long weekend. I had a first generation raspberry pi kicking around so I pulled that out, hooked it up to my monitor, installed nodejs and git and got to work from there. It took 700ms or so for my server process to even start on a r.pi - I'd noticed a brief delay on my laptop, but it was so awful on the pi that I ended up spending the…

In Chrome (and I'm guessing other browsers) you can go into the network tab and slow down networking. I don't think there is a similar option for CPU perf. There are several race conditions in many webpages related to waiting for video or images to load. Tangentially my late 2018 i5 MBA feels sluggish compared to my 2014 MBP. Simple things like switching windows are noticeably slower and janky. Unfortunately my 2014…

Actually there is. You can chose to throttle your cpu by 4x or 6x. Really useful not only for optimizing your sites speed but also for finding subtle race conditions.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#186

Post by nullify88 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:25 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #155

foxdev wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just switched from a laptop with spinning rust and an Intel Celeron N2830 to a laptop with an SSD and a Ryzen 5 4500U. Each of the six cores is several times more powerful than the old CPU. Now I get why so many developers build sites that were unusable on the old one. Even a JavaScript-heavy site is as performant as a static site now. They don't even realize what they're doing to people stuck on old low-end comput…

A few years ago I accidentally left my laptop at work, and couldn't program over a long weekend. I had a first generation raspberry pi kicking around so I pulled that out, hooked it up to my monitor, installed nodejs and git and got to work from there. It took 700ms or so for my server process to even start on a r.pi - I'd noticed a brief delay on my laptop, but it was so awful on the pi that I ended up spending the…

> ended up spending the whole weekend profiling and optimizing

Some games supposedly have been optimised similarly by running parts of it on a C64 or Amiga. I cant recall the game or studio but John Carmack comes to mind.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#187

Post by kabes » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:32 AM UTC

greggman3 wrote: post #170

josephg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I accidentally left my laptop at work, and couldn't program over a long weekend. I had a first generation raspberry pi kicking around so I pulled that out, hooked it up to my monitor, installed nodejs and git and got to work from there. It took 700ms or so for my server process to even start on a r.pi - I'd noticed a brief delay on my laptop, but it was so awful on the pi that I ended up spending the…

In Chrome (and I'm guessing other browsers) you can go into the network tab and slow down networking. I don't think there is a similar option for CPU perf. There are several race conditions in many webpages related to waiting for video or images to load. Tangentially my late 2018 i5 MBA feels sluggish compared to my 2014 MBP. Simple things like switching windows are noticeably slower and janky. Unfortunately my 2014…

It's kinda limited though. Like it doesn't affect websocket and webrtc traffic.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#188

Post by tikkabhuna » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #153

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

>(the 10300-10900k are all the same chip with different parts turned off due to manufacturing errors) Wow. Is this a relatively new phenomenon, or something that's been the norm in processor mfg for a long time? I know that the Ks were usually just binned/higher tested chips so they'd unlock those and charge a premium for them, but the idea that they're disabling parts of the die and separating the chip offering that…

A few years ago we had fun with the AMD HD 6950 graphics card. From what I remember, it was more popular than the higher specced 6970, so they simply detuned 6970s by deactivating shaders. Tools were then published by enthusiasts to enable those shaders and some manufacturers even added features to help you do it (mine had a little switch to reset the firmware if you screwed it up).

https://www.zdnet.com/article/upgrade-your-radeon-hd-6950-to...

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#189

Post by drran » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:52 AM UTC

clinta wrote: post #76

drran wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newer processors do the same amount of work faster using multiple cores, so they burn same amount of energy in shorter period of time.

But newer processors use less power at idle, and doing work faster means it can spend more time at that idle, low-power state.

Yes, of course. Processors are idle most of the time anyway, but single processor has more time to dissipate heat passively doing same amount of work (e.g. 2% work, 98% idle), while multiple processors, e.g. 4, will use same amount of energy 4x faster (0.5% work, 99.5% idle), so fan will kick in.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#190

Post by baq » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 7:20 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #75

parsimo2010 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also anecdotally, I'd say the only things that would make a clearly noticeable performance difference to a layperson or casual computer user from the last few years would be: 1. If they previously had less than 4GB of memory and were often swapping 2. If they previously had a spinning HDD and moved to an SSD 3. If they previously had a really low end CPU like something outside the Core range, and moved to an i5 or be…

In my opinion the jump from 1080p to 4K is as significant as the jump from hdd to ssd. That's a lot of screen real estate and especially when programming I put it to use.

1440p 27” is the sweet spot for me: no scaling needed while not having to have your face inside your display and neck doesn’t hurt from constant twisting.