Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#151

Post by MrFoof » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

Aardwolf wrote: post #62

vmchale wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fast desktop chips with fast single threaded performance We can dream :p

I consider the i9-10900K good at that particular attribute! But it lacks the AVX-512 and is still that same architecture we've seen so many times now. i9-10900X has AVX-512, but is slower. I'd love it all in one package, fast single threaded performance when needed, fast multithreaded compiles, and ability to experiment with and benefit from AVX-512 specific workloads

The Ice Lake-SP replacement to the Xeon W-3245 should hopefully be that, if you're looking for a workstation. 16 cores with hopefully a base clock around 3.4-3.5GHz with a single core turbo around 5.0GHz is what I'd expect. Along with the 64 PCIe 4.0 lanes and 8-channel DDR support.

Granted, workstation component pricing. Figure ~$650+ for a C621A chipset motherboard, and ~$2000 for the CPU without the massive (> 2TB) memory support.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#152

Post by jrockway » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:55 AM UTC

btian wrote: post #51

zionic wrote: post #15

The contrast in community enthusiasm between this and Nvidia's 3xxx announcement could not be more severe.

Well, nVidia is selling a new GPU that's faster than 2080 Ti for $500, then 3090 that's faster and $1000 cheaper than Titan RTX. Intel announced 10th Gen CPU lineup with a new logo.

Also Intel's 10th Gen was their 9th Gen with a new logo, and their 9th Gen was 8th Gen with a new logo. Maybe 8 was the same as 7; I don't remember. Basically, Intel isn't wowing people with their releases -- all their recent progress is very incremental and doesn't unlock new computing possibilities for the end user.

Meanwhile AMD is shipping 16 core CPUs to enthusiasts and 24/32/64 core CPUs to high-end desktop users. Getting 56 extra cores is something to be excited about; your 8 hour render is now a 1 hour render. Your 15 minute build is now a 2 minute build. Making your 8 core processor do one synthetic benchmark 10% faster is comparatively very "meh". People are expecting each Intel launch event to be something revolutionary like Zen 2, but Intel just isn't doing that. So people are consistently underwhelmed even though a computer with a 10th or 11th generation Intel chip is going to be quite adequate.

(As for nVidia, I am also not amazingly excited. The 30XX series feels like a refresh of the 20XX series; yeah they're cheap, but if you already have a 20XX your world is not going to change dramatically.)

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#153

Post by disillusioned » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:10 AM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

>(the 10300-10900k are all the same chip with different parts turned off due to manufacturing errors)

Wow. Is this a relatively new phenomenon, or something that's been the norm in processor mfg for a long time? I know that the Ks were usually just binned/higher tested chips so they'd unlock those and charge a premium for them, but the idea that they're disabling parts of the die and separating the chip offering that way is crazy to me. Are the parts being disabled redundant or are they reducing the instruction set space? I don't know anything about how any of that would work.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#154

Post by dqope21 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:17 AM UTC

Seems like AMD will be gaining more market share in the near future

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#155

Post by josephg » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

foxdev wrote: post #136

parsimo2010 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also anecdotally, I'd say the only things that would make a clearly noticeable performance difference to a layperson or casual computer user from the last few years would be: 1. If they previously had less than 4GB of memory and were often swapping 2. If they previously had a spinning HDD and moved to an SSD 3. If they previously had a really low end CPU like something outside the Core range, and moved to an i5 or be…

I just switched from a laptop with spinning rust and an Intel Celeron N2830 to a laptop with an SSD and a Ryzen 5 4500U. Each of the six cores is several times more powerful than the old CPU. Now I get why so many developers build sites that were unusable on the old one. Even a JavaScript-heavy site is as performant as a static site now. They don't even realize what they're doing to people stuck on old low-end comput…

A few years ago I accidentally left my laptop at work, and couldn't program over a long weekend. I had a first generation raspberry pi kicking around so I pulled that out, hooked it up to my monitor, installed nodejs and git and got to work from there.

It took 700ms or so for my server process to even start on a r.pi - I'd noticed a brief delay on my laptop, but it was so awful on the pi that I ended up spending the whole weekend profiling and optimizing. Anyway, come Monday I pulled the changes onto my fancy laptop and they made a noticable difference in subtle responsiveness. Everything just felt faster. I probably wouldn't have even noticed if I didn't spend that time programming on the pi.

Facebook has "slow internet thursdays" or something, where once a week developers can opt in to experience their internal facebook dev environments in the same way it feels for people on slow connections in poorer countries. I think that sort of thing would be good for all of us. Programming in constrained environments makes our software work better everywhere.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#156

Post by CarbyAu » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

ehvatum wrote: post #113

ComputerGuru wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this one hard to swallow. On 60Hz software is already the bottleneck even on high end hardware. If anything, it’ll drive a perfectionist mad because crappy software that the high end hardware allowed to operate just over that threshold (say 64Hz) would suddenly be exposed. I think jitter is more important than FPS and until software has caught up (likely never) I would rather cap the frame rate at 60 FPS and e…

120Hz is incredible for gaming. Unity and Unreal Engine dynamically scale tessellation and many other things to accommodate hardware performance, so as to maintain FPS on high-refresh screens. The polygon counts, texture detail, AI complexity of modern games is bonkers, but multiple moon landings of engineering time has gone into keeping solid 100Hz+ frame rates. However, you are definitely correct when it comes to G…

Every now and again I think a "Windowing/Compositing" desktop experience replacement in the form of an Unreal Engine based "game" would be cool.

Even supports VR. '80s Cyberpunk matrix here I come!

pulls out a virtual gun to kill a process dead

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#157

Post by dr_zoidberg » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

whynotminot wrote: post #40

dougmwne wrote: post #21

From a quick read, in case anyone is wondering, this is built on the latest-gen 10nm process which is a refinement on the previous 10nm process. Intel's goal was to focus on clock increases, so the instruction per clock is apparently not much changed. From looking at the tables, the whole line of processors appear to have nicely improved one core max clock speeds, which should hopefully help single core performance,…

FWIW, I upgraded to one of the 2020 MBP Ice Lake machines. I've seen much, much improved CPU and GPU performance that makes my daily life better. I think much of the increase comes from going from dual core to quad core and perhaps not as much the single core gains, but still, I'd be curious what kind of software he's deving to not see much improvement. If he's doing compiling or web-dev transpiling kinda stuff, I'm…

I recently got a chance to use a 1005g1 (lower end i3 of Icelake family) and was quite surprised. I had it in my hands a bit more than a week before we had to send it back due to issues (SSD "died" and resurrected 3 times in 10 days, was definitely faulty).

Felt definitely faster than the 7200u I keep using, though I didn't get much of a chance to benchmark both. I also noticed that, despite having a much weaker battery (some 36W/hr mess), it managed to pull 6hs on a single charge, on merit of dropping to 1.2Ghz as fast as it could (though it quickly climbed to 3.4Ghz if required).

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#158

Post by dr_zoidberg » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #153

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

>(the 10300-10900k are all the same chip with different parts turned off due to manufacturing errors) Wow. Is this a relatively new phenomenon, or something that's been the norm in processor mfg for a long time? I know that the Ks were usually just binned/higher tested chips so they'd unlock those and charge a premium for them, but the idea that they're disabling parts of the die and separating the chip offering that…

I remember hearing 10 years ago that Phenom x3 was a 4 core part that always got a dead core in manufacturing (:

So no, nothing new under the sun.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#159

Post by aryonoco » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #123

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

> The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are That logic seems backwards. If you have poor yields you tend to favor higher-margin products (i.e. datacenter CPUs). This is a laptop CPU intended to sell at significantly lower $/mm2. As far as chiplets: multichip packages are an ancient idea, and the industry goes back and forth on them. Both Intel and AMD shippsed multi-chip solutions way back in the day, the c…

Laptops (and for that matter mobile SoCs) are smaller, so higher defect rates can be tolerated as you can still get reasonable yields. you need a mature process to manufacture large chips (economically).

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#160

Post by leovailati » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 3:03 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #153

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

>(the 10300-10900k are all the same chip with different parts turned off due to manufacturing errors) Wow. Is this a relatively new phenomenon, or something that's been the norm in processor mfg for a long time? I know that the Ks were usually just binned/higher tested chips so they'd unlock those and charge a premium for them, but the idea that they're disabling parts of the die and separating the chip offering that…

I remember hearing something about the Cell processors on Playstation 3's being the ones with manufacturing errors. The 100% good ones were supposedly sold to the US military. I realize that second part was probably just a myth. Who knows, maybe it was all an internet myth! The PS3 was released in 2006, so the idea itself is not new.