Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#131

Post by danudey » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #82

mrob wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. If they previously had a 60Hz monitor, and upgraded to 120Hz or better. This improves both motion quality and latency. When poorly designed software makes you wait multiple frames, halving (or better) the frame time makes a noticeable difference.

I find this one hard to swallow. On 60Hz software is already the bottleneck even on high end hardware. If anything, it’ll drive a perfectionist mad because crappy software that the high end hardware allowed to operate just over that threshold (say 64Hz) would suddenly be exposed. I think jitter is more important than FPS and until software has caught up (likely never) I would rather cap the frame rate at 60 FPS and e…

> It’s the same thing with retina/HiDPI. It’s amazing when everything is retina, but all the random bits and pieces of UI, let alone entire softwares, that appear blurry make for a worse experience than a strictly low dpi UX.

The very, very first thing I did at my last company after migrating to a retina Macbook Pro was go into our monitoring systems and configure it to render the graphs at 2x size and then scale them down on the client.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#132

Post by jopsen » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

justaguy88 wrote: post #104

mrob wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The bottleneck is usually your eyes, not the monitor. On 1080p you can use small bitmap fonts that are legible even at low resolutions. 4K mostly gives you more flexible typography aesthetics, which doesn't improve programming productivity.

1080p outright looks blurry after using 4k, so its pretty hard to even contemplate going back

But getting vscode or chrome to render fast at 4k is nontrivial.

I basically went back to 1080p because of this.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#133

Post by mhh__ » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

abakus wrote: post #107

What happens to Intel's independent GPU project? With the new nVidia 30xx series it seems that Intel GPU will have a hard time finding its niches.

AFAIK Xe is still coming.

Ultimately, Intel have the resources to compete with Nvidia. If they want to they'll have to set realistic expectations though (Intel's revenue is more than AMD's, Nvidia's, TSMC's combined - it takes more than money though)

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#134

Post by foobiekr » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #21

From a quick read, in case anyone is wondering, this is built on the latest-gen 10nm process which is a refinement on the previous 10nm process. Intel's goal was to focus on clock increases, so the instruction per clock is apparently not much changed. From looking at the tables, the whole line of processors appear to have nicely improved one core max clock speeds, which should hopefully help single core performance,…

It doesn't help that Catalina seems to have some serious performance regressions.

As one of may examples, set up an SMB3 connection to a network-attached storage device and then write a short program that uses two or three threads that walk a big director calling stat and lstat on every file. For large complex file hierarchies, Catalina (unlike Mojave) will start stuttering the entire UI and media playback.

"rclone" with --transfers=3 can bring a 2019 mbp to its knees, like Windows 3.1 writing to a floppy disk.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#135

Post by kllrnohj » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #120

Not too interesting for those interested in high performance desktop and server offerings. The fact that Intel's only new releases on 10nm are AMD did a really smart thing with their processor designs. Instead of doing a large monolithic multiprocessor like Intel (which may be able to eek out some extra performance due to optimized wire placements), they use smaller chiplets. This results in requiring no manufacturin…

> That's my understanding, anyway -- correct me if I'm wrong.

Since these are mobile processors your understanding is incorrect. What you've described is what AMD did on the server & desktop side. But on mobile, to hit the power efficiency targets, AMD stuck with the single monolithic die. And it's a decently large one, at that: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15381/amd-ryzen-mobile-4000-m...

So no AMD wouldn't yield better on Intel's 10NM+, not in this case. In the desktop usage they would, as their desktop CPU dies are way smaller than their mobile CPU dies. But the mobile die sizes are fairly equivalent between AMD & Intel.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#136

Post by foxdev » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #67

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anecdote: a family member and software dev just bought the latest macbook pro coming from about an 8 year old macbook pro. Apparently he doesn't perceive much real world performance difference between the 2 machines. He said single core synthetic benchmarks were higher, but not by much. It really depends on the workload. My old MacBook Pro feels the same as the newer model 98% of the time that I'm using it, but I r…

Also anecdotally, I'd say the only things that would make a clearly noticeable performance difference to a layperson or casual computer user from the last few years would be: 1. If they previously had less than 4GB of memory and were often swapping 2. If they previously had a spinning HDD and moved to an SSD 3. If they previously had a really low end CPU like something outside the Core range, and moved to an i5 or be…

I just switched from a laptop with spinning rust and an Intel Celeron N2830 to a laptop with an SSD and a Ryzen 5 4500U. Each of the six cores is several times more powerful than the old CPU. Now I get why so many developers build sites that were unusable on the old one. Even a JavaScript-heavy site is as performant as a static site now. They don't even realize what they're doing to people stuck on old low-end computers.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-Celeron-N2830-vs-...

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#137

Post by yread » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

This article is really a lot more informative with synthetic benchmark numbers.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/All-core-4-3-GHz-at-28-W-Intel...

Intel's 4 core parts getting within 3% of AMD's 8 core parts, 20% lead in single core perf.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#138

Post by SkyPuncher » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #21

From a quick read, in case anyone is wondering, this is built on the latest-gen 10nm process which is a refinement on the previous 10nm process. Intel's goal was to focus on clock increases, so the instruction per clock is apparently not much changed. From looking at the tables, the whole line of processors appear to have nicely improved one core max clock speeds, which should hopefully help single core performance,…

> Anecdote: a family member and software dev just bought the latest macbook pro coming from about an 8 year old macbook pro. Apparently he doesn't perceive much real world performance difference between the 2 machines. He said single core synthetic benchmarks were higher, but not by much.

I'm in a not dissimilar position with my (older) personal laptop and my (newish) work laptop. Two things I notice:

* Battery life. My work laptop lasts longer on battery because it uses less power to do the same amount of work. Not really a problem 99% of the time when I'm plugged into an outlet. * Compile times. Work laptop is much faster at compiling, but this is really only noticeable on cold-builds. Incremental builds are fast enough in both cases.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#139

Post by vbezhenar » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

mrob wrote: post #78

parsimo2010 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also anecdotally, I'd say the only things that would make a clearly noticeable performance difference to a layperson or casual computer user from the last few years would be: 1. If they previously had less than 4GB of memory and were often swapping 2. If they previously had a spinning HDD and moved to an SSD 3. If they previously had a really low end CPU like something outside the Core range, and moved to an i5 or be…

4. If they previously had a 60Hz monitor, and upgraded to 120Hz or better. This improves both motion quality and latency. When poorly designed software makes you wait multiple frames, halving (or better) the frame time makes a noticeable difference.

Can't confirm that. Used 144 Hz display and was not really able to tell a difference. I run benchmark and there were very subtle difference, but 60 hz is more than enough for me. Now 4K resolution is a big deal.

Re: Intel Launches 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake

#140

Post by micv » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

badsectoracula wrote: post #130

ehvatum wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120Hz is incredible for gaming. Unity and Unreal Engine dynamically scale tessellation and many other things to accommodate hardware performance, so as to maintain FPS on high-refresh screens. The polygon counts, texture detail, AI complexity of modern games is bonkers, but multiple moon landings of engineering time has gone into keeping solid 100Hz+ frame rates. However, you are definitely correct when it comes to G…

> 120Hz is incredible for gaming. ...if you're playing with v-sync :-P. I got a (rather expensive too) 165Hz monitor recently and the main benefit is to lessen the lag that Windows' forced composition (which also does v-sync) has. But in games i always played with v-sync turned off (i do not mind the tearing, unless it only happens at a fixed position i never really notice it) and the responsiveness was already very…

The size and weight of CRTs was basically unbearable. Huge problems. You can give up a lot to get out from that, and most CRTs weren't that sort of high quality. Most of us lost nothing but a huge inconvenience when we moved from CRT to LCD/TFT/whatever.