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Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

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Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#91

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

gh02t wrote: post #58
Enginerrrd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it produces better outcomes in vivo, does it matter whether or not the proposed mechanism is correct?

Ideally you'd like to understand the mechanism so that you can isolate and optimize the the effect, as well as predict possible interactions/side effects.

Ideally. In reality it rarely happens. And it's certainly not needed, the entire basis upon which evidence-based medicine is founded is that an effective intervention should be statistically measurable in it's effect regardless of our knowledge of the underlying mechanics.

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#92

Post by stonogo »

michaelhoffman wrote: post #63
woeirua wrote: post #29

Seems like it should be really straightforward to determine if this hypothesis is right by measuring bradykinin levels in Covid patients versus non-Covid patients. One thing that I think strongly suggests that this hypothesis is wrong is that there is no strong relation between ACE-inhibitors and Covid mortality. Indeed, most of the studies that I've seen suggest that ACE-inhibitors have a somewhat protective effect…

The cited article has been retracted. (I know this because I have the PubPeer extension installed which puts a big red warning by it.)

The retraction is linked on the right sidebar under Related Articles: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2021225?query=rec...

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#94

Post by wlll »

klysm wrote: post #3

The anthropomorphization of computers (especially powerful ones) is pretty annoying. A _person used a supercomputer_ to analyze Covid-19, and I’m guessing the theory didn’t just ‘emerge’ from the computer.

This was the exact same thought that ocurred to me when I read this headline.

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#95

Post by nefitty »

_jal wrote: post #78
elwell wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment will not age well when our future computer overlords search archived social media history to identify dissenters.

Roko's Basilisk (Eliezer's Bane?) is one of my favorite examples of religious formation.

Before I understood some of the counter arguments against Roko’s Basilisk, that idea caused me to have one of the worst panic attacks I’ve ever had.

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#96

Post by sradman »

woeirua wrote: post #29

Seems like it should be really straightforward to determine if this hypothesis is right by measuring bradykinin levels in Covid patients versus non-Covid patients. One thing that I think strongly suggests that this hypothesis is wrong is that there is no strong relation between ACE-inhibitors and Covid mortality. Indeed, most of the studies that I've seen suggest that ACE-inhibitors have a somewhat protective effect…

ACE and ACE2 [1] work in tandem:

> ACE2 counters the activity of the related angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) by reducing the amount of angiotensin-II and increasing Ang(1-7)

The cell/tissue tropism of SARS-CoV-2 must logically have some effect on the function of the renin–angiotensin system (RAS). What is frustrating is that these questions remain unanswered.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin-converting_enzyme_...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_alveolus#Type_II_cel...

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#97

Post by hinkley »

klysm wrote: post #3

The anthropomorphization of computers (especially powerful ones) is pretty annoying. A _person used a supercomputer_ to analyze Covid-19, and I’m guessing the theory didn’t just ‘emerge’ from the computer.

"Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that."

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#98

Post by hinkley »

klysm wrote: post #3

The anthropomorphization of computers (especially powerful ones) is pretty annoying. A _person used a supercomputer_ to analyze Covid-19, and I’m guessing the theory didn’t just ‘emerge’ from the computer.

I wonder if this only says something about the author or about us.

You might phrase a title that way if you believe that we trust computers more than we trust scientists. Is that true? I don't think so. But if it is, how horrifying.

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#99

Post by jessriedel »

klysm wrote: post #3

The anthropomorphization of computers (especially powerful ones) is pretty annoying. A _person used a supercomputer_ to analyze Covid-19, and I’m guessing the theory didn’t just ‘emerge’ from the computer.

I did not interpret "emerge" and emerging from the computer, any more than something like "LIGO reports very unusual data, and a new theory of physics has emerged".

Re: Supercomputer analysis of Covid-19 leads to new theory

#100

Post by throwaway43234 »

hosh wrote: post #22
gchokov wrote: post #9

Vitamin D for the win!

We don’t know the dosage or protocol for stopping the bradykinin storm, or even if this hypothesis is confirmed through more tests ... but it seems sensible to me to make sure one has a healthy level of Vitamin D, and that is actionable for a lot of people.

> that is actionable for a lot of people

Really hoping this is better by the next few months or my Seattle winter will be even more pill popping to maintain basic human functionality....

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