Putin regime wants to make sure that Belarus fire wouldn't spread to Russia, and thus the timing of the message that they sent to whatever little opposition still exists in Russia. I mean the chances of actual popular uprising in Russia in near future is nil, yet Belarus can definitely embolden and make the opposition bigger, thus basically reverting the effects of all the opposition squashing Putin's efforts probabl…
Success in Belarus would embolden opposition in the Central Asia though, yet another group of Russian allies.
Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
241–250 of 371 posts
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#242https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent “ These agents were designed to achieve four objectives:[21][22] to be undetectable using standard 1970s and 1980s NATO chemical detection equipment; to defeat NATO chemical protective gear; to be safer to handle; and to circumvent the Chemical Weapons Convention list of controlled precursors, classes of chemical and physical form.[23]”
This is bad. But it was targeted. I worry about how easy it would be for terrorists to do something very bad with a large quantity of this stuff seeing it's so easy to move about.
It's a way for Putin to publicly murder someone without having to say he did it.
The whole point is that this is hard to replicate.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
By matching what happens in Belarus now to Russia. It was long believed, even in US, that Lukashenka had the majority. In reality, he faked all elections since 1994. Once his deeds became hard to ignore even for pathetically peaceful Belarusians, all the population turned against him. Gosh, the exit poll in my voting station recorded only one vote for Lukashenka among 358. I was there watching the exit poll for a cou…
The election results had him at ~80% votes, if he is really rigging elections, would he really go for such unrealistic numbers. If I have just 40% support, I might go for showing it to be about 55%, so that it at least looks close. I think he did rig elections but he might have had majority already, which makes his numbers look so unrealistic or he is just plain stupid to not even rig elections to make them look beli…
He would if he wanted his quiet dissidents to feel isolated and his loud ones to be that much easier to find.
It's not that much different than other leaders declaring there are no gay people in their country.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. In the '90s Soviet nuclear submarines were being sold on the black market. Putin's grip isn't as tight as you think. I'm not denying that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok. The question is who ordered it. I'm not convinced it was Putin.
This seems like semantics, was it Putin that signed the order or did one of his henchmen? Don’t matter. This is the Nth novichok poisoning too. Putin is either complacent or participant.
> one of his henchmen
There are various clans of power in Russia, and not all of them are loyal, or report, to Putin.
Navalny had a lot of enemies.
> complacent
It's likely. The alternative could lead to some serious instability. For example, evidence suggests Kadyrov took out Nemtsov, but holding Kadyrov accountable could lead to chaos in Chechnya. Is it worth it? This is realpolitik.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not true. Putin's approval rating is actually pretty high even when measured by NGOs sponsored by the "West". You'll be surprised, but it is quoted to be 60% in July 2020. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Vladimir_Putin
We're citing Wikipedia now? I don't claim it's wrong, I claim citing Wikipedia is poor practice and surprising to see here. It's excellent for getting a broad overview but when it comes to specific facts or figures, these should be cited directly.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternative was given by the poster I was answering to: a false flag. Who has anything to gain? Basically anybody, who needs any reason to blame Russia for everything, which is a very popular thing to do for the last 10 years at least, and getting more and more popular lately. Intimidating the opposition? I already said why I don't buy it. There is no real opposition to intimidate. Navalny does what he does for the l…
Yes and then Occam’s razor. Your explanation requires too many assumptions, and fails to explain other facts of history - such as other people having been poisoned, or Putin et al doing other wildly unpopular things just for the sake of it. Russia habitually invades the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish waters _just to show that they can_. Your reasoning boils down to “if you can think of an explanation, it’s wrong”. The…
P.S. I want to clarify, that I don't really blame CIA, it was just a way of simplifying the essence of what I'm trying to convey. I don't try to make any theories of what's happening, I'm acknowledging that I have no clue, because what I'm seeing is 2 political sides pointing at each other, shouting and swinging arms. All that I'm saying is that accepting "the simplest explanation because of Occam'z razon" here is stupid, because (unlike when setting up a physics experiment) the simplest explanation here is just words and pointing sides, the same as the more complex explanation, and I can think of dozens of "possible explanations" that all will be lies. So I don't pretend to know who poisoned Navalny (or even if he was poisoned, for that matter), but it would be baffling to me if it indeed was done under direct or indirect Putin's orders. So, I was only telling the GP that he is not alone in thinking this seems very suspicious. Indeed it does.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think many Russian people, especially those who watch or read mainly Russian news, hold such views with complete sincerity. The internal propaganda is quite effective.
I definitely believe you. A Russian colleague, who is living in EU for several years, found it justified that Russia invaded Poland back in 1940. We were all baffled.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
The events in Belarus recently demonstrated that you are wrong. I ran a small (1 mln pageviews/month) online Russian-speaking community since 2003 and since 2014, my main preoccupation are Kremlin bots. The population in Russia is mostly anti-Putin, they just do not speak up, because the state made sure they feel isolated.
That is not true. Putin's approval rating is actually pretty high even when measured by NGOs sponsored by the "West". You'll be surprised, but it is quoted to be 60% in July 2020. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Vladimir_Putin
1. The legacy of 8 decades under a government practicing public polling under a gunpoint.
2. Only the most well fed, and carefree Potemkin villages can be surveyed.
3. The lack of any other genuine option other than saying "I back a complete joke "alternative" candidates," which are set up by the regime itself to play Pope Gapon
4. Plainly faked polls
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#249Putin's approval rating is actually pretty high even when measured by NGOs sponsored by the "West". You'll be surprised, but it is quoted to be 60% in July 2020. [1] And while it is possible to blame Putin for this Navalny's incident, he isn't the only one with motive/opportunity. It is actually very sad that some HN readers sometimes have a strong tendency to blame Trump/Putin/Another for Everything. I get that they…
> allows the US to impose more sanctions Trump has done nothing but cater to Russia, which has been discussed at length. Lookup Russian bounties on us soldiers. And whatever doubt-sowing your attempting can easily be disregarded by Occam's Razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay I'm sure there is always some post-Soviet era bias being applied, but does that change anything substantially? Did the "West" also lie about this Novichok attack on UK soil? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_... Your baseless tinfoil skepticism is extremely useful to fascists like Putin who thrive off of spreading disinformation and uncertainty. Do Western countries lie to benefit thems…
> baseless tinfoil skepticism You can throw around these funny derogatory phrases all day, they lend no credibility to your fantasies.
Likewise, here's the definition of fantasy https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fantasy
I'll let you conclude which applies to you.