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Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

jvt.me

151–160 of 170 posts

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#151

For those criticizing the author for 'fantasy' security problems, it seems relevant to emphasize that they work at a bank---their threat model is probably rather more vigorous than most.

> they work at a bank---their threat model is probably rather more vigorous than most Until one day when you work with ACH files and start having existential dread about the american payroll system.

ACH gets a bad rap.

The file format is archaic, but not objectively worse than any alternative (modern or contemporary). It helps to think of an ACH file as an expression of a line protocol, with field framing and offsets and some internal checksumming.

ACH files are mostly human-readable in their raw form (some simple vim highlighting goes a long way), and that was surely a design goal. It is terse (important for 1960's era data transfer/storage costs) which makes it information-dense, which remains a feature today.

As a system, the ACH Network is incredibly reliable and secure. The security is built into the system, not into the file format. Only trusted players are invited to participate, and the threat of removal is much greater than any enticement to deceive. Furthermore, it is a full-recourse system. Errors can be backed out after the fact.

File delivery is secured in the usual way. Preshared keys, SSH/SSL, etc. ACH is more secure than your bank/broker website, or any ecommerce transactions.

I would like to see encrypted (or at least cryptographically-signed) ACH files, and I wish ACH was used in support of something quicker than a 2x/day (business days only) batch settlement cycle...but that's an interbank/Fed issue.

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they work at a bank---their threat model is probably rather more vigorous than most Until one day when you work with ACH files and start having existential dread about the american payroll system.

Yes it's sometimes rediculus with what regulated businesses can get away with as long as it's either historical or had been certified to be secure at some point in time.

I don't think this is a good argument.

The ACH network is orders of magnitude more secure than credit cards. And ACH transfers have simple recourse, when errors or fraud occur.

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#153
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For JWTs, I agree with this stance, since they are security credentials and therefore basically all of them are sensitive information. As long as it's prod env and your expiration time is somewhat reasonable, then I don't think it is sensitive at all unless you're storing an actual sensitive informations in them.

So you're just hoping that there isn't a bad guy on the other side trying to use the credentials in real time? Seems like a bad assumption to make, especially for a site that's specifically made for pasting in JWTs.

[deleted]

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

worked at a courtroom, most pastebin clones were banned it's a natural worry

And a good one too. I'm currently maintaining https://0bin.net , and because we encrypt everything client side, people feel like they can post anything they want. We get some pretty personnal stuff. They really should not. It's a can of worms. We can get compromised. Bought. Receive a court order (we comply with dmca). Or they could be on the wrong URL (typo squatting, phishing...). Don't trust random online services…

Very nice service. Added to https://privacytoolslist.com/

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#155
post #106
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you'd just have to validate it when you're inputting something particularly sensitive (and I really do usually look in the network console when I'm doing something like that)

Sounds like a lot more work than using a local solution.

Personally I don't feel that's true if you include the significantly increased amount of research necessary to even find a decent local solution most of the time. Web apps are much more discoverable.

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#156
I agree with the author. I still think he makes some invalid points.

1. "Although Non-Production, these are sensitive in of themselves, as they have implementation details for our services, and as mentioned, certain things could be used outside of Capital One."

Implementation details of your services shouldn't be a part of your security. Otherwise, you are relying on security by obscurity. I agree that you shouldn't necessarily share them publicly (if just for the sake of preventing people from relying on them as a public API), but declaring them as a security breach is far fetched (I'm assuming they are not actually relevant to your security).

2. Many of the points that the author attributes to 3rd party services actually also apply to local tools, if they are downloaded by something like npm.

* it's not clear whether the code you are running is identical to the open source version of the code that you think you are running

* you have to trust a third party you have no relationship with

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#157
I do enjoy this perspective from someone who says "I have no access to production data". Typically that is used as an excuse to not practice any security whatsoever, rather than as a side-note on a security heads-up!

I go back and forth on this all the time - easier access to production means faster development, but requires more discipline. Being able to reproduce production issues without production data takes a lot of engineering - which can be hard to justify when you're a tiny shop - when I was DevOps for 100 engineers it was certainly a much simpler time justification...

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#158

I agree with the author. Is it highly unlikely, sure, but it's important to create awareness of the risks associated. At the end of the day, you are sending potentially sensitive data to a third party. Good security posture is all about building habits and I personally don't want myself or my team being comfortable with the idea of pasting code or JSON config files into a third party system. If any of these online to…

I keep a copy of CyberChef [0] locally. Can do the majority of the data manipulation I need. Does JWT Decoding / Signing / Verification and JSON Validation / Pretty as well. You can experiment with insignificant data here [1]. [0] https://github.com/gchq/CyberChef [1] https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/

Wow this looks really useful

Re: Why I Actively Discourage Online Tooling like jwt.io and Online JSON Validators

#160

I agree with the author. Is it highly unlikely, sure, but it's important to create awareness of the risks associated. At the end of the day, you are sending potentially sensitive data to a third party. Good security posture is all about building habits and I personally don't want myself or my team being comfortable with the idea of pasting code or JSON config files into a third party system. If any of these online to…

I keep a copy of CyberChef [0] locally. Can do the majority of the data manipulation I need. Does JWT Decoding / Signing / Verification and JSON Validation / Pretty as well. You can experiment with insignificant data here [1]. [0] https://github.com/gchq/CyberChef [1] https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/

Thank you
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