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Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

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Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#261

Post by wwarner »

I'll grant that some people overpay for some types of education because of loans that shouldn't be available. But it could be simpler still. Contrary to the typical contrarian viewpoint, a college education costs a lot because it is very valuable. American schools are filled with excellent foreign students that pay the premium rate, and receive no state support. Why? Because it's a great value.

Technology has created a two tier economy, hollowed out in the middle. If you don't get a good degree, you'll just free fall down to whatever happens to be left in your region, and you'll still be biting your nails every day waiting for technology to make your skills obsolete.

I think @pmarca's admonition to build, build and build some more is part of the solution. We have to find technological applications besides building a monopoly and taking over an industry. There's really a lack of imagination on our part.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#262

Post by sudosysgen »

noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

>Universality, High Quality, Low Cost, choose two

Incorrect. Most of Europe as well as Canada spend less money, on average, per student as the US, have universal systems, and are (very) high quality.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#263

Post by sudosysgen »

justinmeiners wrote: post #229
twic wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are absolutely, utterly, unable to imagine that the way they do things is not the best. It's incredible to watch from outside.

Europeans are absolutely, utterly, unable to imagine that things they pay a percentage of all income earned, over their entire life, are not free. It's incredible to watch from outside.

When you consider the totality of costs, inside and outside taxes, European healthcare and education is significantly cheaper for comparable or better outcomes.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#264

Post by bonoboTP »

It's expensive because people can pay for it and we know they can because they do.

All this talk about debt is mostly a non issue in real life but generates a lot of heat online. American jobs pay vastly more than any other country on the planet and paying back the debt is quite easy. Otherwise people wouldn't keep enrolling. From a European point of view, US taxes are low, salaries for professionals are sky high, utilities (gas, electricity) are cheap, consumer goods are cheap.

Of course, you'll have difficulties if you majored in art history or archeology, but that's also true everywhere.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#265

Post by tptacek »

SilasX wrote: post #106
tptacek wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why there isn't simply the option of making a lot more colleges. "High Quality, Low Cost, Pick 2" isn't how most markets work.

IMHO, because what colleges are selling is effectively a positional good[1], one valued specifically for how it ranks against other similar goods. They're selling the certification that "this person is in the n% percentile of employability". And you generally can't just make more of a positional good. That's like, "why can't Louis Vuitton ramp up production so that everyone can have a LV handbag?" [1] https://en.wiki…

People say that, but it's not really true. Tuitions are lower-tier schools are also extremely high; the tuition break doesn't happen until you get out of accredited 4-year universities and into community colleges.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#266

Post by sudosysgen »

pb7 wrote: post #104
user5994461 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, cost in France is about 11kE per year for undergraduate and 22kE per year for master in computer science engineering. That's what it costs the university per student, not what the student pays (up to 1k a year). This doesn't cover accommodation or canteen since that's not part of the university. I don't know what's the cost in the US but I don't imagine it's orders more. The worst number I heard from c…

That's roughly how much public in-state universities cost in the United States on average[0]. Some states are significantly cheaper. [0] https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c...

Wait. You're comparing total cost in France, to cost at the point of use excluding taxes in the US. Education in public in-state universities is also highly subsidized.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#267

Post by kovek »

bonoboTP wrote: post #264

It's expensive because people can pay for it and we know they can because they do. All this talk about debt is mostly a non issue in real life but generates a lot of heat online. American jobs pay vastly more than any other country on the planet and paying back the debt is quite easy. Otherwise people wouldn't keep enrolling. From a European point of view, US taxes are low, salaries for professionals are sky high, ut…

I have a friend in France who is getting an art education for free. Is she going to be in debt for her whole life? I don’t think so. Yes, some jobs pay very well in the US, but not all of them. Average job often pays enough for rent and living expenses plus a little bit. Student debt has interest and people end up paying that interest for many many years.

I’m writing in the declarative, affirmative tone, but it is only my understanding.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#268

Post by justinmeiners »

sudosysgen wrote: post #263
justinmeiners wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans are absolutely, utterly, unable to imagine that things they pay a percentage of all income earned, over their entire life, are not free. It's incredible to watch from outside.

When you consider the totality of costs, inside and outside taxes, European healthcare and education is significantly cheaper for comparable or better outcomes.

See other comments. That may be the case, but it's wrong to frame it as "free" vs "paid".

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#269

Post by blueprint »

bonoboTP wrote: post #264

It's expensive because people can pay for it and we know they can because they do. All this talk about debt is mostly a non issue in real life but generates a lot of heat online. American jobs pay vastly more than any other country on the planet and paying back the debt is quite easy. Otherwise people wouldn't keep enrolling. From a European point of view, US taxes are low, salaries for professionals are sky high, ut…

> we know they can because they do

That's backwards logic though. It might appear to be true in the short term but it doesn't mean that people are actually capable of sustaining the growth in the rate.

And as for the debt being easy to pay back, it kind of sounds like you're in a programmer debt and salary bubble.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#270

Post by specialist »

bonoboTP wrote: post #264

It's expensive because people can pay for it and we know they can because they do. All this talk about debt is mostly a non issue in real life but generates a lot of heat online. American jobs pay vastly more than any other country on the planet and paying back the debt is quite easy. Otherwise people wouldn't keep enrolling. From a European point of view, US taxes are low, salaries for professionals are sky high, ut…

Any discussion of rising tuition costs omitting the elimination of government subsidies is myopic at best.
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