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Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

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Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#31

Post by ghj »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21
cheeze wrote: post #2

... And nothing of value was lost. If it's detremental to your business to not be able to track users on such a granular level, it's a bad business. I'm sure Facebook will survive here. 100% biased, can't stand that company.

> If it's detremental to your business to not be able to track users on such a granular level, it's a bad business. Except that Apple still allows tracking on this granular level, it's just that now they have to explicitly ask users to allow this. Says a lot about Facebook's (and others) business model if it only works when the vast majority of users are mostly unaware of the amount of tracking they do, but the minut…

To be fair if you add an opt-in step to anything, it will kill that thing. No moral judgement, just human laziness. If it doesn't kill it, it still becomes something everyone loathes (e.g., how you need an extra click to accept cookies on every site you use).

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#32

Post by tmhrtly »

ghj wrote: post #31
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's detremental to your business to not be able to track users on such a granular level, it's a bad business. Except that Apple still allows tracking on this granular level, it's just that now they have to explicitly ask users to allow this. Says a lot about Facebook's (and others) business model if it only works when the vast majority of users are mostly unaware of the amount of tracking they do, but the minut…

To be fair if you add an opt-in step to anything, it will kill that thing. No moral judgement, just human laziness. If it doesn't kill it, it still becomes something everyone loathes (e.g., how you need an extra click to accept cookies on every site you use).

I think in some situations if users see value in the opt-in then it can be ok. E.g. your phone asking you if you're happy to share your location with an app. I sure as hell want my mapping app to know where I am, but I also feel very comforted that I still get a say in the process. The thing about this tracking opt-in is that no user would ever want it because it's solely there to exploit them. So in this case I think you're 100% right.

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#33

Post by mr__y »

reaperducer wrote: post #16
mr__y wrote: post #8

Maybe this will encourage switching to context-based ads. If I'm reading blog post about Rust, I might be interested in buying books or online training in Rust. Or, if I'm watching a video on how to take care of kitten, food or vaccination for kitten might be of interest for me. Nobody needs to track all my activity to guess that.

If I'm reading blog post about Rust, I might be interested in buying books or online training in Rust I have been repeatedly assured by ad tech experts on HN that Facebook (and Google's) advertisements which are custom-tailored to my tabulated interests are far superior to the ads I would get through traditional context advertising. You can tell by all the ads I see on Facebook for feminine hygiene products for the l…

>advertisements which are custom-tailored to my tabulated interests are far superior to the ads I would get through traditional context advertising.

actually my post is not arguing with that, however facing the reality where interest tracking/profiling will become harder or impossible good old context-based ads might at some point become better alternative. Not because they're inherently more efficient but because, with changes like that, interest tracking might become infisible or too resource consuming

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#34

Post by clement_b »

This is a tsunami for ad tech. Facebook just being the tip of the iceberg here.

Tracking or not tracking is not really the topic here. Rather, this is yet another proof of how abusive Apple is. They claim killing IDFA is for the sake of users' privacy, while they do track users and their behavior and feed them sponsored search results on the App Store (via Apple Search Ads). This ability is just too good to share!

Apple is giving 3 months notice to an entire industry, this is just not nice. They do it for tracking this time, 'social' login next, and you name it. This idea of doing business unilaterally will backfire at some point...

Regardless, the next 12 months are going to be as interesting as the rise of Facebook Ads on mobile, the rise of re-targeting or SEM. Because the entire ad tech stack is looking for alternatives and doing anything it can to remain effective on iOS. Get ready for some good and some ugly! Looking forward to seeing what Google will do with their own advertising ID on Android.

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#35

Post by cortesoft »

tmhrtly wrote: post #32
ghj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair if you add an opt-in step to anything, it will kill that thing. No moral judgement, just human laziness. If it doesn't kill it, it still becomes something everyone loathes (e.g., how you need an extra click to accept cookies on every site you use).

I think in some situations if users see value in the opt-in then it can be ok. E.g. your phone asking you if you're happy to share your location with an app. I sure as hell want my mapping app to know where I am, but I also feel very comforted that I still get a say in the process. The thing about this tracking opt-in is that no user would ever want it because it's solely there to exploit them. So in this case I thin…

Wouldn't the value in this situation be "you get to use Facebook"? If they didn't make money off their users, Facebook wouldn't exist.

Would you be ok if they did it that way? A warning that says "by using Facebook, you are agreeing to be tracked", at which point the user could either continue or uninstall the app?

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#36

Post by lancesells »

aaaxyz wrote: post #19
mr__y wrote: post #8

Maybe this will encourage switching to context-based ads. If I'm reading blog post about Rust, I might be interested in buying books or online training in Rust. Or, if I'm watching a video on how to take care of kitten, food or vaccination for kitten might be of interest for me. Nobody needs to track all my activity to guess that.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but this is what some online stores appear to do (poorly). E.g. suggesting me office chairs after I just ordered one, suggesting motherboards incompatible with a CPU I'm looking at...

If you're seeing ads from the same company for office chairs it's most likely a poor marketing campaign setup. It could also be if you're running third party blockers in your browser when you check out and then use the mobile apps you might not have been counted by the Facebook pixel.

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#37

Post by aowerijwaerj »

Facebook is 21st-century cigarettes. Thousands of brilliant scientists and engineers testing and optimizing their product to be as addictive as possible. No concern for the effects on their users or on society. The only concern is making money. Just like with cigarettes, at first it was cool, then it became mainstream, then the dangers became better known, then the CEO was ordered to appear before Congress and gave a lot of misleading and empty responses, now it's used primarily by laggards and poorly-educated demographics. I'll be glad to see them go. Because one day they will go.

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#38

Post by pessimizer »

ghj wrote: post #31
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's detremental to your business to not be able to track users on such a granular level, it's a bad business. Except that Apple still allows tracking on this granular level, it's just that now they have to explicitly ask users to allow this. Says a lot about Facebook's (and others) business model if it only works when the vast majority of users are mostly unaware of the amount of tracking they do, but the minut…

To be fair if you add an opt-in step to anything, it will kill that thing. No moral judgement, just human laziness. If it doesn't kill it, it still becomes something everyone loathes (e.g., how you need an extra click to accept cookies on every site you use).

If you add an opt-in step to anything people don't want, it will kill that thing. If people were opting into getting an actual cookie rather than a tracker for advertisers to understand and target their behavior, you'd have 100% uptake.

That people won't opt into something that they didn't ask for and isn't primarily for their benefit is unsurprising.

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#39

Post by [deleted] »

clement_b wrote: post #34

This is a tsunami for ad tech. Facebook just being the tip of the iceberg here. Tracking or not tracking is not really the topic here. Rather, this is yet another proof of how abusive Apple is. They claim killing IDFA is for the sake of users' privacy, while they do track users and their behavior and feed them sponsored search results on the App Store (via Apple Search Ads). This ability is just too good to share! Ap…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook isn’t happy about Apple’s upcoming ad tracking restrictions

#40

Post by maps7 »

cortesoft wrote: post #35
tmhrtly wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in some situations if users see value in the opt-in then it can be ok. E.g. your phone asking you if you're happy to share your location with an app. I sure as hell want my mapping app to know where I am, but I also feel very comforted that I still get a say in the process. The thing about this tracking opt-in is that no user would ever want it because it's solely there to exploit them. So in this case I thin…

Wouldn't the value in this situation be "you get to use Facebook"? If they didn't make money off their users, Facebook wouldn't exist. Would you be ok if they did it that way? A warning that says "by using Facebook, you are agreeing to be tracked", at which point the user could either continue or uninstall the app?

I think the new changes will hurt facebook competitors more. Everyone knows Facebook and it has a brand. They want to collect some info? Most people won't care - they just want to use the app like they always have. They might think twice with a new app that they don't know
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