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Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

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Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#101
post #83
post #47

Food intake is regulated primarily by dietary protein and carbohydrate • Low-protein, high-carbohydrate diets are associated with the longest lifespans • Energy reduction from high-protein diets or dietary dilution does not extend life https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)...

> in mice fed one of 25 diets ad libitum You got me for a moment.

What's this in English? They were randomly assigned a diet, and could eat as much as they pleased?

I find it hard to overeat a low carb diet, so if mice feel the same way, they would then benefit from caloric restriction on such a diet.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#102
post #14

Actual substantial longevity - beyond quality of life enhancements - is something I greatly fear. It would change everything. Imagine life with no kids and the joy they bring, a stagnation in all societal structures, no turnover of ideas (loosely quoting "agendas don't die; people die"). I'm sure such a civilization would be very stable, but won't have any extreme sports.

I would ask why 80 just happens to be the best lifespan for humans. If we’re optimizing for things you listed, imagine how much more child-inspired joy and new idea throughput we could get if we had kids at 18 and died at 40? I’m still unclear on the point of life, but I’m not convinced it’s that kind of optimization exercise.

I would look at this as something where the interests of the society or species as a whole diverge from the interests of individuals.

It may be quite reasonable for someone to prefer a more dynamic society and social structures caused by an average life span of 50 years, while at the same time preferring themselves and their loved ones to live for 100+ years on average. The question of "do you want to live much longer" is not the same as "do you want everyone to live much longer"; accepting that death and "forced turnover" has some positive role in how societies function (e.g. that you can't have eternal dictators because, in the worst case, eventually they die of old age) is compatible with still wanting death to be something that happens only to someone else whom you don't know or don't like. It's hypocritical but realistic - there's no reason to assume that longevity advances will be distributed to be evenly available.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#103
post #59

In 1897, philosopher Paul Janet came up with the model that current moments of time in our lives might be perceived by their "fraction of life lived thus far". This would seem to undermine the value of longevity somewhat: according to this visualization of the idea: https://www.maximiliankiener.com/digitalprojects/time/

I don't like this argument, it has a singularly at age zero.

The visualisation sidesteps the problem by starting at year one. You can also add arbitrary constants or other tweaks, but then the idea lose its elegance and you can make it say anything you want.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#104
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shhh. Don't wake them up from their pro-aging trance.

Never understood why so many people are so vehemently against anti-aging sentiments. Are they in denial about their own, current mortality?

This is a situation where it's important to believe what is actually true.

If aging can't be stopped, then it's appropriate to accept your mortality and not be in denial.

But if aging can be stopped, then it's appropriate to fight against your mortality and not accept it.

Accepting your mortality has always been the correct answer because (and only because) we always have been inevitably mortal, and denial about mortality has been bad because (and only because) it's detached from reality. However, once the reality changes and it becomes plausible for the people living at that time (perhaps this time has already come for people who are still young? who knows) to become effectively immortal, then refusing to accept mortality stops being denial and becomes a healthy attitude.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#105
post #71
post #47

Food intake is regulated primarily by dietary protein and carbohydrate • Low-protein, high-carbohydrate diets are associated with the longest lifespans • Energy reduction from high-protein diets or dietary dilution does not extend life https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)...

...in mice, which evolved to eat mainly carbohydrates, while humans evolved to eat whatever they could

Humans evolved as endurance hunters. We have some of the best heat management features of all animals like no hair and sweating.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#106
post #77

So the tl;dr from what I've found so far is that: * What you eat * When you eat * How much you eat * Exercise Are by far the simplest, cheapest, and most well documented way to extend life by quite a lot. We have lots of evidence to back calorie restriction. We know that eating more earlier in the day vs later means your insulin levels can recover better (or something?). We know eating certain types of fats is bad fo…

Eat well, live well, still die. I agree with everything you’ve written there, apart from the idea that diet & exercise will extend your life by quite a lot, and the idea that you’ll have to gamble with interventions now if you’re in your 40s. There’s simply no behaviour or treatment today that will significantly extend the maximum human lifespan; unfortunately doing so will require years of scientific and technologic…

> apart from the idea that diet & exercise will extend your life by quite a lot

But there's quite a lot of research on this?

> and the idea that you’ll have to gamble with interventions now if you’re in your 40s

You don't have to. Feel free not to. But if your goal is life extension based on research, you only have what's available today, and around your 40s is, again from my layman reading, when your body starts to really age hard.

> There’s simply no behaviour or treatment today that will significantly extend the maximum human lifespan

If you're saying "living past 125" isn't possible even if you start now, sure, but longevity is more about feeling 40 when you're 60, avoiding potential issues like heart attacks and alzheimers, etc. It is not about living forever as you seem to be saying, and maybe that's a larger misconception. Living longer, sure, but mostly it's about living better.

I haven't seen a single person, anywhere, in everything I've read, saying "I'm trying to live forever". They're all saying "I don't want dimentia, I don't want a heart attack, I want to walk around and travel and live life well at 70 and 80".

And as for life extension, there's actually plenty of research on things you can do to extend your life. Again, not past 125, but past 70 - diet, exercise, niacin, etc are all pretty well established.

> but when we try to judge those interventions objectively, they’re just not that effective (including diet & exercise).

This doesn't seem to actually be the case. I'm surprised anyone would say that intervention treatments for something like avoiding heart disease aren't effective.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#107

So the tl;dr from what I've found so far is that: * What you eat * When you eat * How much you eat * Exercise Are by far the simplest, cheapest, and most well documented way to extend life by quite a lot. We have lots of evidence to back calorie restriction. We know that eating more earlier in the day vs later means your insulin levels can recover better (or something?). We know eating certain types of fats is bad fo…

> Exercise

The evidence on exercise is extremely poor. In cultures that promote athleticism the sheer willingness to exercise correlates so strongly with healthiness that it's extremely hard to control for. And even then meta studies give you at best only a few extra years.

Exercise itself is a risky activity. Over a lifetime the risk of injury is non-trivial.

Studies that go against this pro-exercise bias are usually ignored[0].

[0] "This result suggests that daily strenuous exercise as an occupation shortens rather than prolongs the lifespan." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0476-6

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#108
post #59

In 1897, philosopher Paul Janet came up with the model that current moments of time in our lives might be perceived by their "fraction of life lived thus far". This would seem to undermine the value of longevity somewhat: according to this visualization of the idea: https://www.maximiliankiener.com/digitalprojects/time/

I think novelty of a moment relative to your recorded memories affects how you perceive the duration of that moment. More novel moments are perceived as lasting longer.

As life goes on novelty of new moments goes down.

You could say this explains or underlies the Janet model.

But one can seek out novelty to slow down time. In the extreme you could “reset”, move away from everything you know, and start from scratch.

I have no evidence for any of this other than my own perception. Does anyone know where to find more discussion on this topic?

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#109

So the tl;dr from what I've found so far is that: * What you eat * When you eat * How much you eat * Exercise Are by far the simplest, cheapest, and most well documented way to extend life by quite a lot. We have lots of evidence to back calorie restriction. We know that eating more earlier in the day vs later means your insulin levels can recover better (or something?). We know eating certain types of fats is bad fo…

> Exercise The evidence on exercise is extremely poor. In cultures that promote athleticism the sheer willingness to exercise correlates so strongly with healthiness that it's extremely hard to control for. And even then meta studies give you at best only a few extra years. Exercise itself is a risky activity. Over a lifetime the risk of injury is non-trivial. Studies that go against this pro-exercise bias are usuall…

> (seems like there are open questions here, like how much is actually important)

Yes, see this part of my post. It does seem that lots of types of exercise are not at all necessary for health.

This trial, for example, shows that HIIT for 3 intervals of 2-3 minutes had better impact than HIIT for 4 intervals of 4 minutes. So obviously there's still a lot to learn.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31565193/

And then there's SIT, reduced exertion HIIT, etc. Lots of different stuff here.

> Towards the minimal amount of exercise for improving metabolic health: beneficial effects of reduced-exertion high-intensity interval training

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-011-2254-z

There's also research showing impact on blood glucose levels when you exercise before/ after eating, etc. "Exercise" is a big lump of a term, but there's a massive amount of research into different kinds - far more research than with almost any of the pills you can take.

Re: Longevity FAQ: A beginner's guide to longevity research

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not want to live longer?

The real question is what kind of life. I love driving my motorcycle, and I'm well aware of the risks involved. Now let's imagine a world where they cure aging. When dying in an accident, you could lose a whole lot more than now. I'm pretty sure we would quickly evolve to a society where we minimize the risk to die to almost 0. I do not want to live in such a oversafely world. Besides, I'm very happy with 70 or so ye…

I doubt the extra years lost will affect people's decisions. I've seen a lot of 20 somethings weaving in traffic or not wearing protective hear while motorcycling. It's human nature to enjoy life by taking risks, reasonable or not (subjective as that is).
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