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Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

netflixtechblog.com

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Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#181

Post by lfuller »

adrr wrote: post #18
charrondev wrote: post #5

That seems like a pretty impressive achievement! Question for anyone here: What do you use to play 4K/HDR? I have an Apple TV 4K, which can do 4K Dolby Vision playback and looks ok, but the Apple TV tends to have some jittering when streaming certain shows (very noticeable in panning shots of animation). The sound quality is also noticeably worse on my set with it (it doesn’t seem to be able to do direct pass through…

HDR10 is fine right now. I don’t know of any tv that has a 12 bit capable panel or can create over 1000 nits brightness. HDR10 supports 4,000 and Dolby vision supports 10,000. TVs need to get a lot better before Dolby vision makes a difference.

The per-scene dynamic metadata of Dolby Vision is what makes the most difference in my opinion, not the theoretical max nits / bits. I can see a pretty dramatic difference on my LG C9 OLED when watching HDR10 vs DV.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#182

Post by jjj123 »

Do other people have the same issues I have with streaming dark content? I watch a lot of horror, and the compression on Netflix and Shudder (and probably HBO + Hulu) causes really horrible banding in dark scenes.

Literally if they could just fix this I would have no problems with streaming quality.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#183

Post by heroprotagonist »

Yet they still can't properly render 21:9 content on a 21:9 display. You get a shrunk picture with black bars on all sides. Even their "Originals" or N-Series or whatever they call it now have this problem.

Here's hoping someone from Netflix is in the comments and can act on it, because their support system hasn't done anything in the 2 years since I brought it to their attention.

edit: Actually, I tried to track down the film used in the new encoding (I think it's The Dirt from the signs and dates seen in the frame captures) so I could screenshot for comparison. It actually worked in 21:9 fullscreen.

Was it the new encoding? I saw this problem up until this past week, most recently on Maniac but I checked that show and it's no longer an issue.

From the post I suspect it was this adding in extra blacks at top and bottom on 21:9 content in the old method:

> with fixed 4K resolution bitrates — 8, 10, 12 and 16 Mbps — regardless of content characteristics

But I truly don't know what it was. I just know that video no longer ignores 40% of my screen real estate by watching on a 21:9 monitor since sometime last week.

THANK YOU! That has been annoying me for years.

But Please add 3440x1440 to your testing. It's not shown in those charts.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#184

Post by ksec »

bscphil wrote: post #101
out0fpaper wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Existing encoders have suported this for ages using multipass. In the first pass of multipass encoding, the input data from the source clip is analyzed and stored in a log file. In the second pass, the collected data from the first pass is used to achieve the best encoding quality. In video encoding, two-pass encoding is usually controlled by the average bitrate setting or by the bitrate range setting (minimal and ma…

My point is that if Netflix thinks they can do better, it would be great to see their code contributed to the public, since they're using an open source program to do all their encodes. Also, you're making a slight mistake. About a decade ago (?), x264 was changed so that even 2-pass mode is really just using CRF under the hood. It's not "achieving the best quality", it's just figuring out what quantizers you need to…

>since they're using an open source program to do all their encodes.

Is that still the case? They switched from x265 to beamr for HEVC. Not sure if they are still on x264 on recent encodes.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#185

Post by ksec »

snailmailman wrote: post #56
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that ATV+ looks the best, which is much appreciated. However, what has been driving me insane with all these services is how the bitrate is completely inconsistent throughout, depending on network congestion. Every service I subscribe to will "automagically" lower the bitrate if the network can't handle it. Which is fine, I get it. The thing is, it's the only way to watch anything, and depending on the c…

On my phone it lets me download Apple TV+ content. The files are shockingly large compared to what Amazon Video downloads are. A 1 hr clip was maybe 800mb in prime, but a few gigabytes from apple. (I don’t have any on my phone atm, but a quick search is telling me episodes of “For all mankind” are ~4GB and an hour long) It looks noticeably better, a massive step up that is completely worth the extra bytes. On my desk…

>It looks noticeably better, a massive step up that is completely worth the extra bytes.

I keep thinking if their reason was to push for higher capacity iPhone sold.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#186

Post by ksec »

radley wrote: post #20

> Sometimes we ingest a title that would need more bits at the highest end of the quality spectrum — even higher than the 16 Mbps limit of the fixed-bitrate ladder. From just a cursory inspection using my Apple TV 4K, 12 Mbps is their target bitrate but their ceiling was ~16 Mbps. That's still only a third of what AppleTV+ offers (36/48) and only 2/3 of Disney+ (18/24). Netflix is still higher than Prime Video (10/14…

I often wonder why. Both Apple and Netflix have their own Edge Cache. Which is just an Appliance sitting inside the ISP network. Bandwidth is essentially cheap / free.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#187

Post by Mindwipe »

rblatz wrote: post #82
arendtio wrote: post #12

Looks amazing and while I would like to enjoy such quality and am willing to pay for the premium plan (in fact I do already), I still can't watch the 4K content even in a world where I accept DRM modules in my browser, because some DRM plugins seem to be more equal than others.

I am shocked at how many people watch Netflix in their browser. I have multiple different ways (AppleTV, Xbox, TV Smart App) to watch Netflix on my tv, and at least 2 of them support 4k.

> I am shocked at how many people watch Netflix in their browser.

They don't. They're just very noisy.

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#188

Post by Mindwipe »

eisa01 wrote: post #154

Now they only need to offer the 4K streams on an affordable plan for single household customers. It’s unfair to pay for the 4-stream family plan to get 4K for double the price of the single stream plan!

That's not going to happen, Netflix need to push their ARPU up quite significantly in the next few years given how much cash they're burning (and they explicitly promised shareholders they would stop doing last year).

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#189

Post by exikyut »

dimensi0nal wrote: post #176
rblatz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the whole thing is stupid. 4k videos of everything on Netflix are available on the high seas. What’s the point?

Right now stripping Netflix's 4K DRM is possible but it requires buying a new Nvidia Shield TV for every release you do. If you could strip the DRM without buying expensive hardware every time people might be slightly quicker to release the entire 4K Netflix catalog.

I've tried to do a bit of searching around to learn more about how this works, but failed. Got any citations?

Re: Netflix is now doing per-shot encoding for UHD content

#190

Post by jiggawatts »

gruez wrote: post #177
jiggawatts wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could make the argument that this is purposefully deceptive. The phrasing makes it sound like external conditions, outside of Netflix's control are the reason 4K may not be available. The reality is they sell two subscription levels: 4K and a HD-only one, but then after you've given them your money, they outright block access to 4K streams on a device that is physically capable of playing the stream. I can play 3…

>The phrasing makes it sound like external conditions, outside of Netflix's control are the reason 4K may not be available. I agree that the phrasing isn't the clearest, but it's not like the actual requirements aren't available. A search for "netflix 4k" turns up this page as the first result: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444 , which clearly lists what the requirements are.

I could rephrase that entire page with "The compatible devices are the ones that are compatible" and it would provide about as much useful information.

Nowhere on that page does it mention HDCP. There is no such thing as a firmware update for 99.9% of monitors out there.

I meet 100% of the stated requirements on this page, yet NetFlix refuses to play 4K on my high-end computer. It does this silently, without explanation. It simply shows everything as HD, basically gaslighting me.

This kind of thing infuriates me.

I paid for this. I feel like a sucker.

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