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The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

theguardian.com

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Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#101

Post by blunte »

neilsense wrote: post #21
blunte wrote: post #12

At age 35, otherwise healthy and having spent 10 years in Herman Miller Aeron chairs, I had hip problems and a small but growing waistline. Then I transitioned to working from home and built my own standing desk (sadly before the very affordable mechanical Ikea standing desk was first released... But which I have now happily used for years). The first few weeks were challenging, but within three months I could stand…

It's due to the standing - my mum spent most of her life standing at the counter in our shop and she has suffered from vein issues since she was about 50. Lots of swelling as well. Like anything, sitting, standing, jumping - it's worth doing everything within reason. Possibly just switching between positions throughout the day. Of course, these things can be gene dependant as well, but if you already have some spider…

I don't have any swelling. That's an indication of other health problems.

I also don't stand like I'm a statue, however. I'm often shifting around a bit, and usually I stand on a nice firm thick padded mat. If nobody is around and I have some good music on, I might even be dancing a bit.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#102

Post by blunte »

grugagag wrote: post #17
blunte wrote: post #12

At age 35, otherwise healthy and having spent 10 years in Herman Miller Aeron chairs, I had hip problems and a small but growing waistline. Then I transitioned to working from home and built my own standing desk (sadly before the very affordable mechanical Ikea standing desk was first released... But which I have now happily used for years). The first few weeks were challenging, but within three months I could stand…

How do you type standing for long periods of time? Do you rest your arms on the table?

I have the desktop height at the level my hands would naturally rest at if my arms were bent less than 90 degrees (so the interior elbow angle would be about 100 degrees or so).

My arms are resting comfortably at my sides, so the motions my hands make for typing/mousing are comfortable. I'm thinking of an Ergodox to alleviate some wrist rotation issues, but that's nothing to do with the desk.

Do note that for some reason, in standing mode it is necessary to have the monitor higher so the head isn't looking way down and hurting the neck. When sitting, this isn't as much of a problem. However, I spend most of my time standing, so I have the primary monitor height such that I'm only looking very slightly down. My eyes are even with the upper third of the monitor. Also, it's important whether sitting or standing to not push the monitor too far away. That can lead to hunching forward or craning the neck.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#103

Post by blunte »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #22
grugagag wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you type standing for long periods of time? Do you rest your arms on the table?

If you're using a mouse my PT told me to "anchor" your elbow on the desk so you use your wrist to move the mouse, not your upper back. This is true whether standing or sitting. There was a good reason I was in PT and was told this ;)

I've always used a mouse with my fingertips, and my outer hand bone is resting on the mouse mat. Rarely am I pushing the mouse around with my entire hand or arm...

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#104

Post by pdehaan »

supernova87a wrote: post #71
scrooched_moose wrote: post #54

If anyone is looking for a better chair, we found this was a great time to pick up Herman Miller Aerons off of craigslist. There's a steady stream of small-to-medium offices in our area closing, and they're all liquidating office furniture. We picked up 2 for $500. They're a massive improvement over my $80 chair that was fine for a few hours a week pre-WFH, and my back is feeling much better.

This isn't exactly work related, but do people have opinions on the Herman Miller Eames chair? You know, this iconic look? [1] I ask because the lockdown has me fantasizing about distracting myself with replacement stuff for the home. But this chair is freakin $5000. Is it that good to be worth it? Or are any of those $1000 knockoffs acceptable quality? [1] https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-seating…

I've been using one of the knockoffs for about 6 years as lounge/work chair. It's comfortable for things like reading, listening to music, and sitting in video meetings, but not the best posture for heavy typing.

I like the design and it fits me, but it's worth pointing out the lack of adjustment. Unless you want a purely decorative chair, I recommend finding someone with one you can test drive.

The seller I bought the knockoff from has since evaporated, so that's another potential concern if it ever needs repairs.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#105

Post by radley »

mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

I love the mesh HM Aeron Chair because my clothes won't get sweaty during the summer.

One of the best things about the Bay Area is that HM chairs are always easy to find used on Craigslist for ~$250 and they'll last 10+ years. That's not expensive at all.

Tip: replace the wheels with "roller blade" chair wheels. They're quiet!

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#106

Post by radley »

colmvp wrote: post #60
scrooched_moose wrote: post #54

If anyone is looking for a better chair, we found this was a great time to pick up Herman Miller Aerons off of craigslist. There's a steady stream of small-to-medium offices in our area closing, and they're all liquidating office furniture. We picked up 2 for $500. They're a massive improvement over my $80 chair that was fine for a few hours a week pre-WFH, and my back is feeling much better.

I found my Aeron chair triggered my lower back pain. Since then I’ve moved to mostly using a standing mat and standing up as well as strengthening my core. I might try sitting on my Aeron chair after a few months of core strengthening

What size chair are you using (A/B/C)? I had similar problems when I used a C which was too big. I sold it and got a B and haven't had problems since.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#107

Post by m463 »

mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

I found youth will overcome a lot of bad ergonomic habits.

You are doing well by standing. Keeping your core strong will help.

The thing you have to ask yourself is - are you using willpower to overcome bad seating? If you have good ergonomics you will maintain good posture even when you're tired. The idea is to balance your body so it stays in place. Keep your head balanced, your arms relaxed without hunching your shoulders, your wrists at a good angle. If you're looking to the side or up or down, you're going to use muscles instead of balance to maintain your position. (Laptops are not ergonomic and are responsible for long term damage to your body - there are no osha approved laptops)

If you have your wrists at a bad angle, on the hard desk or across the sharp edge of a keyboard, the little ropes and pulleys that get your forearms to move your fingers will wear out. (I use a wrist rest to maintain position, and keep everything warm and comfy)

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#109

Post by gcpwnd »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #48
mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

>I do run 2 to 4 times a week so I do wonder if that helps avoid problems? I think there are a lot of stressed and unconditioned office workers who want some magical device to solve everything. Vertical mice, split vertical keyboards, expensive chairs. None of it replaces exercise. Might be a controversial opinion.

Vice versa no exercise can compensate a horrible chair.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#110

Post by Bedon292 »

sgt101 wrote: post #33

I got a gaming chair at the beginning of lockdown, and I propped up my desk to get everything to the right height. The things I looked for : adjustable arm rests, adjustable height, adjustable tilt and headrest & lumbar support. Also buy a 28" 4k monitor, proper keyboard and mouse device of choice (I got an apple magic pad). All for ~ £500. It's worth the investment.

I got one in October because my old chair at home was dieing. I am so glad I did, its way better than the expensive chairs we have at the office, and less than half the price. I think its probably because it just has more adjustments, and I can get it exactly right for me and my desk.
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