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The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

theguardian.com

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Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#51

Post by nostromo »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #48
mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

>I do run 2 to 4 times a week so I do wonder if that helps avoid problems? I think there are a lot of stressed and unconditioned office workers who want some magical device to solve everything. Vertical mice, split vertical keyboards, expensive chairs. None of it replaces exercise. Might be a controversial opinion.

This is my experience.

I had lower back pain while sitting at a desk when I was younger.

Once I started lifting weights, and specifically doing heavy deadlifts, I've never had back pain again.

Interestingly, a lot of people are afraid deadlifts will cause back pain, but in my case at least, it cured back pain.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#52

Post by agumonkey »

mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

I have a really bad cheap ikea desk chair and even a stool is better than that .. thing. Sitting is killing me and this chair is a catalyst.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#53

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

nostromo wrote: post #51
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I do run 2 to 4 times a week so I do wonder if that helps avoid problems? I think there are a lot of stressed and unconditioned office workers who want some magical device to solve everything. Vertical mice, split vertical keyboards, expensive chairs. None of it replaces exercise. Might be a controversial opinion.

This is my experience. I had lower back pain while sitting at a desk when I was younger. Once I started lifting weights, and specifically doing heavy deadlifts, I've never had back pain again. Interestingly, a lot of people are afraid deadlifts will cause back pain, but in my case at least, it cured back pain.

Not sure where that spine fragility myth came from.

I used to have back and wrist pain. Now I do mild exercise like a brisk daily walk and 100 burpees. Basically the bare minimum to check off my exercise box. I read Sarnos book and took to heart the idea that a lot of aches and pains are not injuries but are in your head.

Now I have no aches and pains ever.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#54

Post by scrooched_moose »

If anyone is looking for a better chair, we found this was a great time to pick up Herman Miller Aerons off of craigslist.

There's a steady stream of small-to-medium offices in our area closing, and they're all liquidating office furniture. We picked up 2 for $500.

They're a massive improvement over my $80 chair that was fine for a few hours a week pre-WFH, and my back is feeling much better.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#55

Post by im3w1l »

mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

I prefer a wooden chair to an office chair, because it's so rigid. I had a one of those fancy $2000 office chairs and I would always lock it so you couldn't lean back. But even locked it would have a little bit of give to it.

Here's where it gets weirder though. I used to have padding on my chair. And it was the the kind of shitty strap on padding that would slide around, and after it did, my leg would reliably fall asleep. One day I got tired of it sliding around and just removed it. My leg never falls asleep anymore.

Only complaint is that leg reinforcement has an II shape instead of H, so there is a little bit of sideways instability.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#56

Post by krick »

mattlondon wrote: post #16

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that seems to be happy to just sit on a dining chair when at my desk? When the WFH wave hit, people seemed to be going mad buying webcams and office chairs. Loads of people I work with spent a lot of energy researching and discussing chairs etc. I have a sit-stand desk and I stand for perhaps 2 to 3 hours any working day. But the rest of the time I just sit on a normal old woo…

Yeah, in fact I'm feeling that the simpler it is the better. All these expensive complex designs seem comfortable at first, but after a month it turns out that "ergonomic" features a chair has don't exactly fit your body anyway and it ends up with pain in the neck or something. With simple rigid chairs it's never really a problem, either you sit up straight or it just gets uncomfortable and you are forced to get up and stretch a little.

I don't use a wooden chair, though, because I like the wheels and ability to rotate. But I much prefer very-very basic office chairs to all these gaming super-ergonomic overpriced whatever. I mean, they felt cool when I sat on them for the first time, but then it turns out to be fucked up in ways I admit I'll never be able to predict when buying one.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#57

Post by sgt101 »

_alex_ wrote: post #43
sgt101 wrote: post #33

I got a gaming chair at the beginning of lockdown, and I propped up my desk to get everything to the right height. The things I looked for : adjustable arm rests, adjustable height, adjustable tilt and headrest & lumbar support. Also buy a 28" 4k monitor, proper keyboard and mouse device of choice (I got an apple magic pad). All for ~ £500. It's worth the investment.

Do you like the gaming chair? I ordered an aeron and didn’t like it, sent it back. Need a new chair. Decade old office chair is falling apart.

yes, it's good : https://secretlab.co.uk/collections/titan-xl-series

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#58

Post by themodelplumber »

polote wrote: post #49

I have been trying to find info on laying down desks and chairs in the past few weeks, but there is really not a lot of people who have experienced with it. If you had, please comment here

You mean laying down to operate a computer? I've been experimenting with that on and off for about 4-5 years now. Looking to deepen / accelerate this practice recently.

It's pretty nice when it works well. I use one of those adjustable (3 joints per side) laptop desks and a mouse or trackball at my side. The laptop desk has a large lip on one end that prevents it from falling off when tilted.

The great thing about this is that laying down seems to reduce strain on the nervous system so much that it's a more sustainable working position in a lot of ways. I find that my overall working mood is much more stable, especially compared to 1h+ sitting upright. I sometimes go back to a sitting position at work in the late afternoon (WFH) and my energy seems sapped by sitting within about 30-45 minutes (not completely sapped; just compared to the laying position). Laying down, on the other hand, is much more sustainable.

I usually experiment with what I have on hand first (I used storage tubs and cardboard boxes to build my first standing desk), and I haven't yet tried any special chairs that allow laying down, except for a reclining couch.

I think my next experiment in this area will be a lumbar pillow to be used when laying flat. I've been surprised at how much lumbar support can make a big difference in chairs, couches, etc. A friend told me he believes lack of lumbar support in his chairs at home caused his nerve damage, and I can see why he would say that.

Some aspects that I don't like:

- It has a social stigma. Either "hospital bed" (are you sick?) or "lazy" (you've been in bed for how long today?)

- I can't (yet) put two 24+ inch monitors to use in this position :)

- Same with my favorite keyboard...laptops are what allow this to work.

- Some other minor things, but I believe paying attention to little adjustments can help here.

Re: The tyranny of chairs: why we need better design

#60

Post by colmvp »

scrooched_moose wrote: post #54

If anyone is looking for a better chair, we found this was a great time to pick up Herman Miller Aerons off of craigslist. There's a steady stream of small-to-medium offices in our area closing, and they're all liquidating office furniture. We picked up 2 for $500. They're a massive improvement over my $80 chair that was fine for a few hours a week pre-WFH, and my back is feeling much better.

I found my Aeron chair triggered my lower back pain. Since then I’ve moved to mostly using a standing mat and standing up as well as strengthening my core. I might try sitting on my Aeron chair after a few months of core strengthening
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