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Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

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Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#21

Post by ashleshbiradar »

envy2 wrote: post #18
ashleshbiradar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp is also used extensively to share misinformation and hateful content, fueling mob violence and hate, especially targetting the minorities across the country. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/09/whats... besides that, the ruling party actively uses whatsapp for political reasons, with it's infamous "It Cell" known for manufacturing fake news. https://theprint.in/politics/9500-it-cell-heads-…

So, I completely understand the concerns about moderation on Facebook itself. But what would you actually have anyone do about WhatsApp? It's an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, and the whole purpose of end-to-end encryption (which, last I checked, HN was generally in favour of) is that there is no way to surveil or moderate the content of someone's communications.

The intent behind talking about WhatsApp wasn't in terms of moderation, but just WhatsApp-a Facebook product, used as a tool used to spread hate/misinformation for political gains.

edit: and how Whatsapp in general has fractured the information-media ecosystem, sending shock-waves across the democracy.

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#22

Post by edge17 »

roenxi wrote: post #2

It is a strategically risky move for Facebook to take an active role in shaping India's political landscape. I imagine that the Indian population might object to American companies deciding what is and isn't appropriate to discuss.

This is true even for the American population

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#23

Post by gruez »

envy2 wrote: post #18
ashleshbiradar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp is also used extensively to share misinformation and hateful content, fueling mob violence and hate, especially targetting the minorities across the country. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/09/whats... besides that, the ruling party actively uses whatsapp for political reasons, with it's infamous "It Cell" known for manufacturing fake news. https://theprint.in/politics/9500-it-cell-heads-…

So, I completely understand the concerns about moderation on Facebook itself. But what would you actually have anyone do about WhatsApp? It's an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, and the whole purpose of end-to-end encryption (which, last I checked, HN was generally in favour of) is that there is no way to surveil or moderate the content of someone's communications.

>It's an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, and the whole purpose of end-to-end encryption (which, last I checked, HN was generally in favour of) is that there is no way to surveil or moderate the content of someone's communications.

AFAIK group chats aren't e2e, and that's where most of the misinformation is shared.

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#24

Post by zozbot234 »

indogooner wrote: post #14
ffpip wrote: post #3

India is a very lucrative market for FB and other companies. 1 billion people, 2 billion eyes. No privacy laws, can easily share and sell data, govt is in the hands of Reliance (in which FB, Google and others are all investing a lot), most Indians are just getting used to the vast internet and are easily tricked.

Ideally they should have some morality to put basic human rights and safety above profits. Even from long term perspective if they continue to ignore hate speech against Islam on their platform I am sure they would lose a lot of users.

'Islam' is not a monolithic block, and we shouldn't represent it as such. Most hate speech against Muslims or varieties of Islam comes from Islamist fundamentalists and radicals themselves, not anyone with ties to any "ruling party" in India or in the Western world.

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#25

Post by captn3m0 »

gruez wrote: post #23
envy2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I completely understand the concerns about moderation on Facebook itself. But what would you actually have anyone do about WhatsApp? It's an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, and the whole purpose of end-to-end encryption (which, last I checked, HN was generally in favour of) is that there is no way to surveil or moderate the content of someone's communications.

>It's an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, and the whole purpose of end-to-end encryption (which, last I checked, HN was generally in favour of) is that there is no way to surveil or moderate the content of someone's communications. AFAIK group chats aren't e2e, and that's where most of the misinformation is shared.

Group chats are E2E in Whatsapp. You’re thinking of Telegram.

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#27

Post by dragonsh »

For failure of legislation, judiciary, administration, media in India to protect minority, Facebook is not the primary actor. Indeed minorities failed to get support from top courts in India where habeas corpus (the most fundamental basic right of Freedom in Indian constitution) litigations are pending for over 1 year and constantly being postponed, and the topmost court is busy prosecuting a lawyer with urgency for a tweet. His main offence is to use public interest litigation to help minorities, question govt and courts and bring to the front the tyranny of majoritarian politics of suppression. He is in cross-hairs of the current govt, so it’s one another way to silence him from questioning govt or courts for decisions.

Agree that Facebook should act decisively to say no to things which incites violence and suppress the voice of minority.

The least it can do is to remove people immediately in the company who appear in slightest to promote or ignore hate and violent information on platform resulting in loss of life. Here Facebook is duty bound to act internally within its company to make sure it’s staff are responsible for their actions. I don’t see any of this indeed the whole Facebook team in India who did it are promoted based on research in WSJ and this article. Getting cozy with richest man closer to right wing is just to secure profits and market at the expense of principles.

Also right wing politics in India enjoys a substantial support, especially the Hitler style (reflected in many govt decisions). Facebook is just reflection of what’s in the society at present. Majority of the people are happy that a temple built will make India no. 1 in the world, talks and real actions on COVID-19 has become boring and not important as it inches towards no. 1 in the world for COVID-19 infections.

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#28

Post by dominotw »

smt88 wrote: post #20
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #4

Removing posts by elected officials is running really close to foreign interference in domestic affairs. Given the history of the East India Company, I am sure India is especially sensitive to foreign companies trying to influence or curtail the speech of their elected officials.

> Removing posts by elected officials is running really close to foreign interference in domestic affairs. No, it's not. If anything, it's opting out of interfering in domestic affairs. Facebook is not an official channel. The elected official has many other platforms, including the country's media, that will publish their message. They can create a blog if they want. If Facebook is the only viable channel for reachi…

> stifling Facebook's right to decide what they want to allow on their platform.

Is indian govt really proposing this though? who is stifling their right?

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#29

Post by im3w1l »

edge17 wrote: post #22
roenxi wrote: post #2

It is a strategically risky move for Facebook to take an active role in shaping India's political landscape. I imagine that the Indian population might object to American companies deciding what is and isn't appropriate to discuss.

This is true even for the American population

It's easier for Facebook to donate to "charities" that smears its enemies as on home turf.

Re: Facebook’s ties to India’s ruling party complicate its fight against hate speech

#30

Post by luckylion »

wtmt wrote: post #10

This can only be solved when more and more people understand the threats not just for the present, but for the future. What Facebook and WhatsApp have enabled are convenient and useful for those in power. So while there may probably be some words here and there, we can’t expect a lot of change on the ground. Disappointingly, the Indian Supreme Court is also lethargic and chooses to look at more trivial matters than g…

> What Facebook and WhatsApp have enabled are convenient and useful for those in power.

I'm sure they are, but are they more useful than what was before? Facebook & Co have some random element, it's not a one-way-communication device like classic media (TV, radio, newspapers) are/were.

The government has much less control over Facebook. You can't just go in and take it over like you could with a radio station, you can either use it and accept that others can as well, or you can block it in your country, but then you can't use it either.

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