Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times • Hacker News Board

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#11

Post by mc32 » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #5

The media spin going on regarding Kenosha is crazy. If I hadn't seen the videos of what happened, I would have assumed it was a white supremacist shooting peaceful protesters, not someone who was being attacked and only shot when he couldn't get away.

I think it was MSNBC and a panel was discussing Kenosha and one of them matter-of-factly called the person in question "white supremacist" without any supporting evidence. There is no journalism --it's just narrative.

Obviously there is a lot we don't know and the case may reveal more facts we are unaware of.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#12

Post by tootie » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #3

The rioting (distinct from the protests) in cities have resulted in a dozen or more dead. Can they be traced back to social media organizing as well? Should all comms that can potentially end up with death and destruction of property be censored?

Whataboutism. And a terrible effort. There has been no confirmed violence traced back to left-wing groups. Criminality has mostly been opportunistic by local criminal gangs, spontaneous personal conflict or organized by law enforcement against civilians and journalists. Only right-wing groups are organizing terrorism. And the comparison is pointless. We should decry this behavior whenever we see it.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#13

Post by hacker_newz » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

derision wrote: post #6

The kid was chased by multiple felony offenders, one with a gun, and was attacked and knocked to the ground by another with a skateboard. The video evidence clearly shows he acted in self defense

He transported an illegally owned firearm across state lines and used it to kill two people.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#14

Post by tootie » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

derision wrote: post #6

The kid was chased by multiple felony offenders, one with a gun, and was attacked and knocked to the ground by another with a skateboard. The video evidence clearly shows he acted in self defense

Completely irrelevant to this post. He was part of an organized effort to escalate tension and create conditions for violence. Even if he was assaulted, walking through that crowd with a loaded rifle acting like a tough guy is equivalent to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. He absolutely should not have been there.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#15

Post by fncypants » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:42 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #5

The media spin going on regarding Kenosha is crazy. If I hadn't seen the videos of what happened, I would have assumed it was a white supremacist shooting peaceful protesters, not someone who was being attacked and only shot when he couldn't get away.

This is not how to look at this if you want to find a way to solve our society’s ills. The gunman was the instigator because he travelled to riots and not to protect anyone he knows or his own property. He brought an assault rifle and walked the streets. Why would anyone not looking for trouble do that? That’s vigilantism. The police are there to deal with it. Not untrained teenagers. Remember, the second amendment is because we want a “well regulated” militia not randos with guns. When you do what this person did, you make it inevitable that gun violence will be the result. That’s why self defense laws do not protect you if you unnecessarily created the situation that led to you having to defend yourself.

The problem with police violence is an extension of this. Police training is directed at control and overwhelming force. Even when there is an alternative path to de-escalate. When you are being attacked, even if you just committed a crime and the attacker is a police officer, your instinct is to fight back. The result is continued escalation until someone is dead.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#16

Post by derwiki » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #12

mc32 wrote: post #3

The rioting (distinct from the protests) in cities have resulted in a dozen or more dead. Can they be traced back to social media organizing as well? Should all comms that can potentially end up with death and destruction of property be censored?

Whataboutism. And a terrible effort. There has been no confirmed violence traced back to left-wing groups. Criminality has mostly been opportunistic by local criminal gangs, spontaneous personal conflict or organized by law enforcement against civilians and journalists. Only right-wing groups are organizing terrorism. And the comparison is pointless. We should decry this behavior whenever we see it.

I don’t see the poster claiming this was left, right, whatever? Just trace the source.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#17

Post by fncypants » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

derision wrote: post #9

fncypants wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry, but someone carrying around an AR-15 on American streets is not a “kid.”

He was 17, so regardless of his actions, he's still a kid. And he wasn't just walking around, he was defending business and property. Earlier in the day he was cleaning graffiti off of buildings in Kenosha

My favorite response to this circulating right now is a photograph of Ted Bundy doing dishes.

That was not his business or property. He was a vigilante.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#18

Post by adwi » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:45 PM UTC

derision wrote: post #6

The kid was chased by multiple felony offenders, one with a gun, and was attacked and knocked to the ground by another with a skateboard. The video evidence clearly shows he acted in self defense

... after he already had killed a protestor. After realizing what he did, instead of calling for help or staying to justify his actions, he ran away and shot two more people in the process.

Then the police let him walk away.

Please contrast this with the same police shooting an unarmed black man seven times in the back at close range while getting into his car. Imagine if he had 2’ long rifle on him too.

I don’t relish political discussion in this forum, and I’m sorry to dang et all if I’m furthering that. It just feels like the world is on fire and it’s hard to bite your tongue when ostensibly reasonable people fundamentally disagree with things covered on video.

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#19

Post by Kednicma » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #3

The rioting (distinct from the protests) in cities have resulted in a dozen or more dead. Can they be traced back to social media organizing as well? Should all comms that can potentially end up with death and destruction of property be censored?

Yes; there's a listing [0] of violence committed during the protests since they started earlier in the year.

I think that the police will continue killing people until they are disbanded or restructured. History tells us that police in Chicago and NYC, for example, can be and have been the primary source of corruption and organized crime. Edit: Chicago's police ran a torture ring for years [2]; NYPD has earned a dedicated page for all of their corruption scandals and the most egregious misconduct [3].

Facebook isn't doing enough to curb police using social media to organize. I don't think that we're asking for censorship, so much as we're asking Facebook to stop implicitly supporting violence and hate. Compare and contrast the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar, where Facebook admitted [1], after half a decade of implicitly backing the genocide, that they had been too slow to respond to the problem.

Edit: Downvoters, what are you exactly upset about? In addition to actually answering the parent's question and providing a listing of instances, I'm directly addressing their concerns and preserving the context of the original article. Please use your words.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incide...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide#Facebook's_r...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Burge

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Departmen...

Re: Kenosha Militia FB Event Asking Attendees to Bring Weapons Reported 455 Times

#20

Post by incrimintal » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #12

mc32 wrote: post #3

The rioting (distinct from the protests) in cities have resulted in a dozen or more dead. Can they be traced back to social media organizing as well? Should all comms that can potentially end up with death and destruction of property be censored?

Whataboutism. And a terrible effort. There has been no confirmed violence traced back to left-wing groups. Criminality has mostly been opportunistic by local criminal gangs, spontaneous personal conflict or organized by law enforcement against civilians and journalists. Only right-wing groups are organizing terrorism. And the comparison is pointless. We should decry this behavior whenever we see it.

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