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Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

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Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#111

Post by basch »

salawat wrote: post #88
meheleventyone wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the crux is well regulated and you nailed that well. If there are random people showing up with guns is that well regulated even if they have similar aims and might work together? One of the clear things from this incident is that the shooter was alone. Basically a cardinal sin from a military standpoint. Add to that AFAIK it’s not necessarily legal for random people to show up and stake a claim to defend pro…

>well regulated You need to make sure you use the term in the way it was when it was written, and properly translate it to modern parlance. All well regulated meant back then was "working as intended" or "fit for the task at hand". Not "activity specifically organized and constrained by formal procedures established by a governing body or authority". Back then, you could use the phrase to apply to a person, their wor…

I don't disagree with what you have to say. I'm sure at the time, 17 was more than old enough.

Besides a traditionalist and literalist, there are other ways to interpret what the constitution means now. As a living document, it's interpretation has changed over time, and can continue to change.

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#112

Post by benmmurphy »

DuskStar wrote: post #99
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah my mistake, you're right. It was illegal for him to own a long barrelled rifle in his state of residence Illinois [0]. He then drove across state lines into Wisconsin with that illegal firearm. [0] https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=0720...

Do you have a quote as to what section says people under 18 or 21 cannot own/carry rifles? A search for '18' and '21' came up with a few 'illegal to transfer a weapon that can be concealed to someone under 18' and the like, but also a section saying: > (c) Nothing in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of this Section prohibits a person under 18 years of age from participating in any lawful recreational activity with a f…

It being illegal in Illinois might not be relevant because his lawyer is claiming Kyle was not in possession of the rifle in Illinois and it was transferred to his possession in Wisconsin.

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#113

Post by thu2111 »

JamisonM wrote: post #38
partiallypro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are posting an unpopular opinion, but I agree. Facebook has become a straw man for a lot of issues that we as a society are just too lazy to grapple with. So we just use outlets like Twitter, Facebook, etc as outlets. Meanwhile we seem to let traditional media completely off the hook. When in some cases (imo) they are quietly cheering for unrest because it makes for great TV/news.

It seems to me that traditional media has not been algorithmically promoting QAnon or Militia groups to their viewers and that difference is extremely important. Holding broadcasters accountable is easier than holding "narrowcasters" like Facebook accountable because you don't see what narrowcasters are promoting. But when you do find out you see that it is things that broadcasters would never push both for ethical a…

They've been promoting other ills to their readers instead, e.g. conspiracy theories about Russia. And they do it non-algorithmically, i.e. knowingly, and isn't that worse? At least with an algorithm the creator can claim any independent decision it makes wasn't an intended outcome. Journalists don't get to say that.

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#114

Post by pstuart »

DuskStar wrote: post #109
pstuart wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that reading comprehension is hard, but I believe in you! Someday, you'll be able to understand the words in the context they were written.

And I hope you eventually learn that racism in response to racism is still racism, even if it is in support of a good cause.

What I've learned is that HN has its share of racist trolls, such as yourself.

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#115

Post by JamisonM »

thu2111 wrote: post #113
JamisonM wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that traditional media has not been algorithmically promoting QAnon or Militia groups to their viewers and that difference is extremely important. Holding broadcasters accountable is easier than holding "narrowcasters" like Facebook accountable because you don't see what narrowcasters are promoting. But when you do find out you see that it is things that broadcasters would never push both for ethical a…

They've been promoting other ills to their readers instead, e.g. conspiracy theories about Russia. And they do it non-algorithmically, i.e. knowingly, and isn't that worse? At least with an algorithm the creator can claim any independent decision it makes wasn't an intended outcome. Journalists don't get to say that.

If you are implying that coverage of Russian election interference is promoting conspiracy theories, then you would need to contend with the actual facts of the Russian efforts to influence US electoral politics to make that case.

Even if you held that coverage of Russia's role in the 2016 election was promotion of a conspiracy theory it would still be an obvious false equivalence to compare that to the promotion of groups like Bugaloo (that has killed multiple federal officers) or QAnon (which has resulted in multiple kidnappings, many other crimes, and promotes the worst antisemetic conspiracies invented, and more far more absurd things).

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#116

Post by DuskStar »

basch wrote: post #110
DuskStar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone underage, carrying an illegal gun, probably doesn't fall into well regulated. Except AFAICT open carry of long guns by minors 16-17 is legal in Wisconsin, as long as if you're hunting you have the appropriate license. And the gun itself is very definitely legal - IIRC it's the most popular "modern sporting rifle" in existence, and millions exist in similar configurations.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/suspected-kenosha-shoot... I was under the impression it was illegal for a minor to be open carrying. By illegal gun I meant not registered to him, correct me if I'm wrong. Was it legal for him to own the gun in Illinois? He was also breaking curfew.

1. It appears to be legal for minors 16+ to open carry long guns in Wisconsin. The law is convoluted, though, and there is quite some debate around this - it is certainly allowed for hunting, and may also be allowed for other purposes. (Concealed carry would be illegal, though)

2. Guns do not have to be registered to an individual in most states. (As in, other than the ones like CA, NY and NJ)

3. It appears to be legal for minors 16+ to possess long guns in Illinois, if you jump through the appropriate hoops - see https://www.ichv.org/legislation/illinois-state-gun-laws/

Yes, he was breaking curfew.

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#117

Post by pstuart »

pstuart wrote: post #114
DuskStar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I hope you eventually learn that racism in response to racism is still racism, even if it is in support of a good cause.

What I've learned is that HN has its share of racist trolls, such as yourself.

Apology to HN for the troll comment. I don't know how to respond to people who intentionally distort my words. Misreading is one thing, but flat out telling me that their misinterpretation of my intentions trumps mine is unacceptable.

Re: Facebook Employees Slam Zuckerberg over Militia Groups and QAnon After Kenosha

#118

Post by pstuart »

jaywalk wrote: post #70
pstuart wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing BLM as being a source of violence is racist AF. I was called a racist on HN because I said "white people suck" in the context of White Nationalism. If one doesn't think that systemic racism is real or a problem, then that individual is either ignorant or racist.

"white people suck" is a cut and dried racist comment, regardless of context.

"white people who make the color of their skin a badge of superiority suck" isn't as pithy.
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