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If high school was better, would we need college?

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Re: If high school was better, would we need college?

#61

Post by Wikiboris »

We've needed to restructure the college system for a long time now. It's moved far from it's original goals as being specialized for a small subset of the population while everyone else received a high-school diploma, learned on the job skills and did rather fine for themselves. Unfortunately, there are too many people who benefit from the current system in order to rework it and the rapid change of a system usually causes a lot of chaos.

However, I see no reason why we need 12 grades of school. In the European countries, they only have 10 and they seem to do alright. Add in two-years of some type of advanced English, Psychology and classes for a concentration of choice and students can be well-educated by age 18 to go into the workforce. It will require them to gain knowledge through searching and an auto-didactic method rather than being spoonfed, but if they don't learn that skill now, then when?

Re: If high school was better, would we need college?

#62

Post by borski »

burgerbrain wrote: post #18
borski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Colleges aren't free and a lot of people don't have the money to pay for them. Public education is important.

There are educational systems other than the current US one you know. Presumably "better colleges" would include, among other things, better and cheaper state schools.

Cheap still isn't free. The idea of college, at least in its current incarnation, is inherently non-free. Also, college during the high school years, lessening the amount of "normal" schooling, leaves the formative years usually spent at college totally free. This can be good, but it can also be very bad; many people don't "find themselves" until those years.

Re: If high school was better, would we need college?

#63

Post by borski »

thematt wrote: post #45
borski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Colleges aren't free and a lot of people don't have the money to pay for them. Public education is important.

Public education isn't free either. You just pay for it every April instead of every semester.

Touché. But if you have no money, you don't pay for it every April, and can still reap the benefits. The arguments about whether this is right or wrong are plenty, but the point stands: public education is free, especially for those who have a very low income. They don't pay for it; the idea is eventually they'll pay for others' schooling in the same way others paid for theirs. That's the way I see it, at least.

Re: If high school was better, would we need college?

#64

Post by burgerbrain »

borski wrote: post #62
burgerbrain wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are educational systems other than the current US one you know. Presumably "better colleges" would include, among other things, better and cheaper state schools.

Cheap still isn't free. The idea of college, at least in its current incarnation, is inherently non-free. Also, college during the high school years, lessening the amount of "normal" schooling, leaves the formative years usually spent at college totally free. This can be good, but it can also be very bad; many people don't "find themselves" until those years.

No schooling is free.

Re: If high school was better, would we need college?

#65

Post by Tycho »

tokenadult wrote: post #24
Tycho wrote: post #19

I think about 98% of the population are what I'd call statistically and economically illiterate. Basic economics should be a mandatory lesson at school, but unless you picked the class you can leave without even understanding the law of supply and demand. And then politicians, whose job is mainly to interfere with economic activity, blast these people with statistics (the significance of which they barely understand)…

Basic economics should be a mandatory lesson at school But if it were, and voters and taxpayers actually entered adult life with a sound knowledge of economics, they would demand that the school system be radically restructured, which is why I don't think that this will happen. "The education system is a formalised, bureaucratic organisational structure and, like any bureaucratic organisational structure, it strives…

Hmmm, interesting. I suppose even if that were true, the 'achilles heel' of such a system would be that they cannot openly admit their true intents. Thus they would be susceptible to innovative ideas (that weaken their position) when brought up in public debate.

Re: If high school was better, would we need college?

#66

Post by theclay »

joshfinnie wrote: post #27
InclinedPlane wrote: post #14

The recent increase in reliance on college as a prerequisite for many office and knowledge worker jobs is more of an indication of the failure of the public K-12 education system than of the beneficial qualities of college. It's no longer feasible to assume that the holder of a high school diploma possesses a basic level of proficiency with the English language (written and verbal), mathematics, reasoning skills, and…

I agree 100% with your comment. I think it was incredibly frustrating going through college in classes where people were there just since it is a requirement for basic jobs today. University should not be forced upon these people who want a four year party away from their parents... let it be for people who want to do something more focused than a general education. The mandatory college experience has to be stopped…

Just imagine how it feels to teach in such environments.
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