Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

631–640 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#631

Post by d3nj4l »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

In that case, you lose nothing even if Epic wins: the msot hey can do is set up their own store, and nobody's forcing you to use their store. If there's an app you want to get on a store you don't want to install, just don't download that app. "Free choice" works both ways: you can choose to remain within Apple's ecosystem, and others should have the choice to go out of it if they want.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#632

Post by just-ok »

notfried wrote: post #289
librish wrote: post #160

Can someone who's on Apple's side here elaborate on why they think the outcome for consumers would be worse if they're forced to loosen some of their restrictions? It's very unlikely that app developers choose to forgo the AppStore since it will be driving the majority of app installs even in a completely open world for years to come. And if they do choose to forgo that distribution channel that should be seen as a v…

I don’t need apps on my iPhone to do 100% of all things that apps can do. I am fine with some restrictions, so long as there’s enough reliability, consistency, privacy and security. If there are alternate app stores, I am sure others would make their apps exclusive there and demand you download them through these stores: 1. Facebook will want a store that allows them to build an app that has no ad or data collection…

Yep, this is exactly where I'm at. Opening up the AppStore is a slippery slope to having 3rd party stores rife with apps that abuse private APIs and go well beyond the gated access to the iOS sandbox that the SDK provides.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#633

Post by d3nj4l »

nodamage wrote: post #627
hakfoo wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wallmart choose their suppliers, and sets the markup, why can't Apple? But, at the end of the day, Walmart can't prevent customers from proceeding to Kroger down the street to get the products or deals they want. That's the market regulator of last resort in most circumstances. You say "Apple doesn't have a monopoly on phones or games". In the broad view, you may be right, but they've spent significant effort in cr…

> Is the only available counterweight for their behaviour "drop everything and buy a new $500 phone to express your discontent?" No. The counterweight is not buying an iPhone in the first place if side loading is important to you.

That does not fix the problem for content creators, who have to target the nearly 50% of the US market that's on iOS. I'm sure everyone at Basecamp would prefer to use androids, but they just can't be competitive with other e-mail services without releasing the Hey app for iOS.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#634

Post by strombofulous »

mrtksn wrote: post #172
TheNorthman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I rarely buy anything, don’t see ads but their business is healthy Where do you think the money comes from, then? Ultimately, your `fantastic' experience comes at the cost of innumerable singular sites of suffering from the children and addicts _who do_ buy them.

Good for them. There are controls for kids and if some people subsidize the rest, I don’t have a problem with that. Some people taking the tab for the rest isn’t new. Some people have more money than sense, that’s alright. These games are high quality entertainment, if some people want to spend money on them, that’s not a bad thing.

There are teams of people whose entire job is to make the IAP as addictive as possible. It's not fair to say that someone should just "be less addicted" to buying them.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#635

Post by weixiyen »

nodamage wrote: post #612
weixiyen wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market share does not actually determine monopoly. You can have 100% market share and not be a monopoly. Conversely, you can have 50% market share and be a monopoly. Apple has more active users in the US than Android btw. The fallacy being repeated is actually people defining monopolies by referencing market share.

In determining whether a competitor possesses monopoly power in a relevant market, courts typically begin by looking at the firm's market share.(18) Although the courts "have not yet identified a precise level at which monopoly power will be inferred,"(19) they have demanded a dominant market share. Discussions of the requisite market share for monopoly power commonly begin with Judge Hand's statement in United State…

Unless you believe a market that includes nearly the entire population of the United States to be "typical", are we not then in agreement that Apple can still be found to be a monopoly, according to the excerpt you just posted?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#636

Post by sudosysgen »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

Then just don't use anything else than the Apple Store? Why should everyone else have to suffer the fact that you can't prevent yourself from using third-party stores?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#637

Post by zemo »

hota_mazi wrote: post #628

Really interesting to study how macrumors.com loses all claims to objectivity when you read its wording with an editor's mindset: > Shortly after Epic blatantly disregarded App Store policies You don't need the adverb "blatantly" here. You can just say "Epic disregarded App Store policies" and be able to claim to some reasonable objectivity. But as soon as you throw in "blatantly", you have clearly revealed yourself…

tim sweeney sent an email to tim cook and other apple execs telling them in advance that he was going to violate the contract and that he would fight them for years if necessary. so, no, it's not biased to call it blatant, they were extremely blatant about it.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#638

Post by ryukafalz »

kmonsen wrote: post #467
rumanator wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. My take is the exact opposite: this episode is an opportunity to air grievances regarding each company, which by themselves have amassed a bunch of reasons for customers and end users to dislike them. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

I agree but here is my take: These companies don't deserve this much of your attention or feelings. I have worked for Amazon and Google, and at the end of the day neither is a place with feelings. I have a lot of love for co-workers in both places and was part of some amazing products. I think I would say the same if I ever worked at Apple. For me, like in others, Apple sure brings up a lot of feelings for some reaso…

> As for the 30% cut etc, I can't get emotional about that. There are so much bigger issues in the world. You have democracy, global warming, nculear weapons, war and famine.

I can’t get emotional about the 30% cut either, but I can and do get emotional about locked-down computing devices. For a kid that grows up only or primarily using a smartphone rather than a laptop, what chance do you think they have to learn how this stuff works? If you use an iPhone, you can’t even begin to write software for it without also having a Mac, and it certainly doesn’t make its inner workings apparent.

Kids only having access to phones and not laptops is a thing that really happens, especially among lower-income families: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/9/21200159/coronavirus-school-dig...

And speaking of democracy, when companies lock down devices such that the manufacturer must approve any software that runs on them, what do you think the impact is on users of those devices when the government of a less-democratic country pressures the manufacturer to remove apps they find inconvenient? See China’s take on VPN apps on iOS.

The more we teach people that computers are magic and design systems such that huge distant companies dictate how it works, the more the balance of power shifts away from individuals. These things have real-world impact. I’m not just picking on Apple here, they’ve just gone further than most so far; this kind of attitude is endemic in our industry, though.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#639

Post by sumedh »

bobdole12345 wrote: post #570
sfifs wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple is nowhere near a monopoly... The case is going to not about that. The case is going to be about Apple not allowing developers to tell their users that they can buy subscriptions and in-app goods for cheaper through alternative payment mechanisms where Apple cannot take a cut. Payments is what is this is about (also see the FB re…

Yeah, it's really unfair that the farmer got so angry when I was banging his daughter while staying at his house. I don't think I should have to listen to the farmers rules when he's got such a sweet daughter there.

So if the adult daughter and you want have a relationship outside the farmer's house, they should not be able to do that?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#640

Post by dylan-m »

snowwrestler wrote: post #600
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

Federal law says you can jailbreak your phone or tablet and put whatever you want on it, and Apple cannot stop you from doing that. The question is whether the law requires Apple to code their OS to make that easy for you. It’s up to the courts of course, but I’m skeptical there is a viable, consistent legal theory available to Epic under current law.

> Federal law says you can jailbreak your phone or tablet and put whatever you want on it, and Apple cannot stop you from doing that.

That's a strange one. In patching security holes, Apple are actively preventing people from jailbreaking their phones. And they should be. So that argument seems ... problematic. This kind of thing was never about making it easy to jailbreak your devices. Actually, it's kind of about the opposite: you should be able to own a device that runs code of your choosing and also have that device not be riddled with security vulnerabilities. (And, despite Apple's bizarre insistence to the contrary, this is very possible).

Post reply on HN