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Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

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Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#171

Post by bityard »

mywittyname wrote: post #128
crocodiletears wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I've swerved off of getting into HAM. By popular perception (in my circles, and perception doesn't necessarily reflect reality) it's a chatroom for boomers (not necessarily a bad thing) waiting to report you to the FCC for any kind of experimentation (a bad thing), with a cost of entry of at least a hundred dollars for equipment that supports a fixed set of protocols with a very narrow use-case. Radio jus…

> waiting to report you to the FCC for any kind of experimentation (a bad thing), This is what always kept me away from HAM Radios. Everyone I knew that was into it was a huge stickler about the rules and would talk about all the bad stuff that should happen to rule breakers. It was pretty unnerving.

Well here's the thing. Most hams seem to be retired engineers. They are used to knowing and following rules and will fall over themselves in an attempt to correct even the slightest error in understanding or application. Not unlike many of us on HN.

However, the rules are actually not that hard to follow and part of getting your license is learning about those rules. The FCC views amateur radio as largely self-policing and will quite literally never go after an individual until they have had multiple complaints, issued several warnings, and have a documented pattern of intentional, malicious violation of the rules.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#172

Post by noodlesUK »

kube-system wrote: post #156
wcfields wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that raised a lot as a concern but I can’t imagine it has any legs nowadays. Previously, in the 1980’s, yes I could see a Taxi/Plumber/etc using amateur radio equipment as a cheaper workaround for their business, but now it’s so much cheaper (and better) to use cellular or, if you really needed business radios they aren’t crazy expensive as they once were.

There's a ton of people using BaoFeng radios without a license. Every once in a while, some ignorant middle manager at a larger company buys a bunch and the FCC cites them.

I’ve actually seen baofengs with little stubby antennas used by various government employees without licenses, for instance workers at the DEQ near me. I’m not a dick so I’m not gonna call the fcc on them, but it’d be funny to see that.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#173

Post by blargmaster33 »

ethbro wrote: post #74
ssimpson wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I am lucky, my club has a bunch of old dudes, but they are still learning and growing. A few years ago, I proposed adding a digital repeater, and it caused all kinds of trouble, but most of those folks left and now its great. We have awesome presentations on how to leverage raspberry pis, building portable battery packs, opensource VNAs, etc. But this is true, a lot of the hobby is very curmudgeon-y. Whic…

Ham radio (the human component) seems to suffer from the DnD 3.5 problem. A lot of people invested considerable effort into obtaining knowledge. Once obtained, they were free to coast. I take it there's no true continuing ed requirement to maintain a license? Now, protocol / technical change threatens to render all their existing knowledge outdated. And furthermore, require additional effort. Unsurprisingly, they're…

The problem with your anology is that 3.5 IS STILL THE BEST ED!!!

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#174

Post by bityard »

wcfields wrote: post #151
detaro wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventing commercial use is still a major argument used.

I see that raised a lot as a concern but I can’t imagine it has any legs nowadays. Previously, in the 1980’s, yes I could see a Taxi/Plumber/etc using amateur radio equipment as a cheaper workaround for their business, but now it’s so much cheaper (and better) to use cellular or, if you really needed business radios they aren’t crazy expensive as they once were.

The reason for the rules against commercial activity on the ham bands was originally to keep hams from competing with commercial services, not the other way around.

However, as an ham radio license holder, I would still not want to see our amateur radio frequencies, which are purposefully set aside by the FCC for hobby and experimental use, used for any commercial purposes at all.

Commercial radio has its own spectrum and rules, and the cost to use it is not insignificant. Many businesses in my area still use radio because it is more reliable and controllable than the services provided by mobile operators. A lot of these would absolutely jump at the chance to use the ham bands and ditch their expensive commercial equipment, regulation, and fees if it were legal to do so.

For non-local communications, HFT companies have been looking at the HF bands for years to shave a few milliseconds off their micro-arbitrage transactions (compared to wired networks) and ham radio has the largest chunk of spectrum after the military.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#175

Post by robertely »

geocrasher wrote: post #155
wcfields wrote: post #152

One factor that I bring up whenever the “ham radio is dying” discussion happen is the FCC public database and safety/doxxing, specifically for marginalized communities such as Trans individuals and Black folks. It, itself, is creating a safety concern in modern society for people that may want to join the hobby but fear doxxing and harassment. If I give out my call sign on the Internet (or on the air) you now know my…

With my last address change, I used a PO Box. My current physical address isn't listed in the FCC database (or qrz.com) and I use my PO Box everywhere else. You can find past addresses easily but not my current. I like it that way for the very reasons you've mentioned.

I'm studying for my test and they warn you that having an undeliverable address could get your license revoked. I wasn't sure how seriously to take that one.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#176

Post by cwkoss »

wcfields wrote: post #152

One factor that I bring up whenever the “ham radio is dying” discussion happen is the FCC public database and safety/doxxing, specifically for marginalized communities such as Trans individuals and Black folks. It, itself, is creating a safety concern in modern society for people that may want to join the hobby but fear doxxing and harassment. If I give out my call sign on the Internet (or on the air) you now know my…

Naomi Wu frequently discusses how the 'dox yourself' requirement reduces diversity in the ham community, something I hadn't considered before her tweets.

https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3Arealsexycyborg%20ham&src...

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#177

Post by apricot »

etimberg wrote: post #83
woofcat wrote: post #4

As someone who has looked on into the hobby in Canada. I feel there needs to be another class for people who just want to use a store bought radio. I have to take time to study an exam about how increasing x changes y, and all these other fun facts about radio equipment. However the draw for me is talking to people, not building radio equipment. Just my two cents.

TBH as someone licensed in Canada, the basic exam is just that. I have an EE background and it is not needed for the basic license exam. There are a number of apps that have all the possible questions for studying. Would recommend using that to study. Having an EE background definitely helps with the advanced exam though

My 12-year-old son will be taking the basic exam next month -- studying for it has been his quarantine/summer project. It's been fun teaching him the basics of electronics, but there is some cramming required, especially for the questions related to legal matters.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#178

Post by jimhefferon »

riffic wrote: post #170
bityard wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an understandable reaction but it's the wrong one. People like that say the things they say for the attention it attracts to them. They are not ashamed of their dumbass bigoted opinions otherwise they wouldn't be transmitting halfway around the world in the clear. If you engage them in any way, even to try to shame them, you have already given them what they want. They are the trolls of amateur radio. The righ…

There was a good thread on reddit about this recently and I firmly agree with this comment about how useless "spin the dial" is: https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/iatqth/a_lot_... social ostracization and penalty has its time and place, and this is one of those occasions. Same reason cars have number plates.

I hear you, but the flip side is that this is a hobby. I did not get in it to get mad.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#179

Post by fat_turdsicle »

riffic wrote: post #132
paulirwin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're being downvoted because of the terms you're using, but you're not wrong. Extra class licensee here. On phone (Single Sideband "SSB" or FM typically, for those not familiar with the terminology, where you use radio for voice rather than data/Morse) I've heard all kinds of absolutely reprehensible things. In one single conversation where a man was ranting about mask mandates, he managed to throw in dero…

Radio is public. These people need to be named and shamed. An automated system for recording and archiving these public transmissions with their call signs attached as tags would probably be a good first step.

It kills you that you cannot control views different than yours doesn't it?

It's called freedom of speech and applies to ALL views. Even pro-censorship conformist ones like yours.

Even though I disagree with your post I don't down vote it or attempt to censor it. It his RIGHT to spout off nonsense just like it is yours.

Re: Ham radio is not dying, it's evolving

#180

Post by pdabbadabba »

rsync wrote: post #166
mikece wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a large amount of the amateur population is 50+ Yes, and a lot of these folks take a "get off my lawn" approach to anything that's different to how amateur radio has been done for the last 50 years. Try talking up metro-wide mesh data network or using packet radio for anything other than APRS you get the "Why would you want to do that?" Once upon a time amateur radio operators MADE their own equipment: it was the m…

"Yes, and a lot of these folks take a "get off my lawn" approach to anything that's different to how amateur radio has been done for the last 50 years." ... which I don't find surprising and seems to fit, but what I was very surprised by was the tremendous amount of submission, and appeal, to authority that pervades HAM communities. FCC regulations are not to be questioned. Even to discuss other, possible regulatory…

I agree with you that there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing possible regulatory changes. But it's a different story if what is really going on here is that they want to follow the regs and you want to explore their "gray areas."

In the U.S., the entire HAM community exists at the FCC's pleasure and there are a lot of other interests out there who would be happy to take over their spectrum if the FCC woke up one day and decided it could be more productively used. Poking the FCC in the idea would be a pretty bad move for the community as a whole.

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