One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro) • Hacker News Board

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#231

Post by gxx » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

actuator wrote: post #26

thebean11 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never really got this argument, what exactly is stopping a manufacturer from writing a great trackpad driver?

I have heard and read in reviews that Microsoft has more or less nailed the touchpad in Surface laptops. So definitely there is scope.

I've been wanting to switch to Windows from Mac for years. The thing that holds me back is the quality of the Mac touchpad vs any Windows laptop, and I recently ordered a Surface Book 3 having heard how great the touchpad is. I've already returned it.

The touchpad is pretty good but it's still not as precise as the Mac touchpad - there is a slight hysteresis that makes it imprecise for short movements. No amount of tweaking settings could overcome this. The only way to be accurate at short range is to slow the overall pointer speed so it takes more than one finger swipe to move across the screen. (If anyone from Microsoft is reading this - why don't you fix it? It can't be that hard.)

The other problem with the Surface Book is the Home and End keys are not accessible at the same time as the function keys - a show-stopper for smooth editing and debugging in an IDE.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#232

Post by ohsonice » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #115

FoomFries wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you arrived at some of these conclusions. - Sluggish UI -> I've never experienced this in the last three years of using my 2017 MBP. - Inadequate package manager -> Somewhat nebulous, most package managers on Linux are available on Unix. - Slow and large updates -> I honestly don't pay much attention as I have updates install automatically while I'm sleeping, but what size differences have you noticed…

> - Sluggish UI -> I've never experienced this in the last three years of using my 2017 MBP. Not the author, but perhaps they meant that the UI was sluggish to use ? I find OSX great if you have one browser window open, but start to multitask at all and I personally find it a real pig to work with. Open windows are hidden behind a tiny white dot on the task bar, lots of wasted space around the task bar, no snapping o…

I use bettertouchtool to get window snapping. And you can turn off the animation when switching desktops in settings.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#233

Post by jimbob21 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #102

alexktz wrote: post #61

I recently purchased a 16” MBP despite significant personal concerns over the future of MacOS, being a strong open source advocate and Linux paying my mortgage. I did this ultimately for a few reasons. MacOS lets me run Adobe (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc), Fusion360, has a good terminal (iTerm and zsh unix like shell) and Logic. Mac hardware is still some of the best in the business, no other vendors seem to be able to…

I am glad that you like your macbook, but your experience has been very different from mine. It has the worst WIFI radio in a laptop that i have used; one area of my house is basically off-limits to it despite every other Wi-Fi enabled device i own working there (phones and several laptop brands). The fancy metal case isnt properly grounded- I get occasionally a slight tingling /shock from it when I have it plugged i…

Can I get some laptop recommendations with similar specs (and most importantly battery time) as the MBP from you? I've been looking around for a new one.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#234

Post by jaclaz » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

kyriakos wrote: post #146

kitsunesoba wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve experienced the grounding thing, but almost always only in houses with dodgy wiring. It never happens in office buildings or newer apartments. I’m not sure that is actually the MacBook’s doing.

Electrical devices should be properly grounded to protect the user from faulty wiring though. I assume this is probably not life threatening but it could under some conditions be a fire hazard.

>Electrical devices should be properly grounded to protect the user from faulty wiring though. I assume this is probably not life threatening but it could under some conditions be a fire hazard.

Not if they are double insulation/class II:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes#Class_II

that is the whole point.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#235

Post by inson » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #102

alexktz wrote: post #61

I recently purchased a 16” MBP despite significant personal concerns over the future of MacOS, being a strong open source advocate and Linux paying my mortgage. I did this ultimately for a few reasons. MacOS lets me run Adobe (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc), Fusion360, has a good terminal (iTerm and zsh unix like shell) and Logic. Mac hardware is still some of the best in the business, no other vendors seem to be able to…

I am glad that you like your macbook, but your experience has been very different from mine. It has the worst WIFI radio in a laptop that i have used; one area of my house is basically off-limits to it despite every other Wi-Fi enabled device i own working there (phones and several laptop brands). The fancy metal case isnt properly grounded- I get occasionally a slight tingling /shock from it when I have it plugged i…

>It has the worst WIFI radio in a laptop that i have used;

I can confirm. I have 2019 Macbook Pro and I have problems with the wifi + overheating and occasional restarts of the mac. I had to do multiple SMC restart. I'll switch to XPS 15 with linux dual boot.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#236

Post by 1123581321 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #102

alexktz wrote: post #61

I recently purchased a 16” MBP despite significant personal concerns over the future of MacOS, being a strong open source advocate and Linux paying my mortgage. I did this ultimately for a few reasons. MacOS lets me run Adobe (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc), Fusion360, has a good terminal (iTerm and zsh unix like shell) and Logic. Mac hardware is still some of the best in the business, no other vendors seem to be able to…

I am glad that you like your macbook, but your experience has been very different from mine. It has the worst WIFI radio in a laptop that i have used; one area of my house is basically off-limits to it despite every other Wi-Fi enabled device i own working there (phones and several laptop brands). The fancy metal case isnt properly grounded- I get occasionally a slight tingling /shock from it when I have it plugged i…

The radio must be faulty. You should have it looked at or replaced by Apple. They are best in class or at least better than mid-ranged laptops, if you’re only comparing to specialty PC hardware.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#237

Post by jdminhbg » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #228

alexktz wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't? I just ran Cinebench R20 and Unigine Heaven benchmark plugged and unplugged (10x each) and got the same scores each time. This is the 16" MBP with the 5600m with HBM2 memory.

You'll get the same performance, but you'll see a decline in the battery charge when really putting the hardware to the test. I've seen it happen just using a Google Hangout. Modern macbooks can ship with a 40 or 60 amp power supply, whereas they should have 90 or 120 amp power supplies. They assume, mostly correctly, that the really intensive workloads will complete before the internal battery is in trouble.

> You'll get the same performance, but you'll see a decline in the battery charge

Right, but the initial problem was that full performance wasn't even possible from the battery, regardless of how much charge you were willing to sacrifice.

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#238

Post by inson » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

jimbob21 wrote: post #233

zdragnar wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am glad that you like your macbook, but your experience has been very different from mine. It has the worst WIFI radio in a laptop that i have used; one area of my house is basically off-limits to it despite every other Wi-Fi enabled device i own working there (phones and several laptop brands). The fancy metal case isnt properly grounded- I get occasionally a slight tingling /shock from it when I have it plugged i…

Can I get some laptop recommendations with similar specs (and most importantly battery time) as the MBP from you? I've been looking around for a new one.

Dell XPS 15

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#239

Post by Izkata » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #3

I am also running Linux on Thinkpad (Debian unstable on T440s). As to the battery life, this typically requires some work but I found it is generally possible to get good battery life. I am able to get my T440s to run for total 24 hours with the highest option 9-cell, the built in 3-cell and another 3-cell that came original with the laptop. This I did to be able to work on a long yacht cruise with no extra power and…

> The entire touchpad is a button and you need to press it and try to move your finger while pressing HARD to drag things, for example.

If you have it set up so a single-tap is treated as a click, you should be able to double-tap (single-finger twice, not two fingers) and keep the finger down on the second tap to drag without any clicking.

Likewise, I have two-finger single-tap for right-click, and three-finger single-tap for middle-click. Pretty sure I only had to enable that last one (Ubuntu), all the others were there by default. I can't remember the last time I actually clicked the clickpad...

Re: One Year with ThinkPad and Linux (From MacBook Pro)

#240

Post by qppo » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

alexktz wrote: post #61

I recently purchased a 16” MBP despite significant personal concerns over the future of MacOS, being a strong open source advocate and Linux paying my mortgage. I did this ultimately for a few reasons. MacOS lets me run Adobe (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc), Fusion360, has a good terminal (iTerm and zsh unix like shell) and Logic. Mac hardware is still some of the best in the business, no other vendors seem to be able to…

Some people will take snipes at the battery life/performance impact but just to give concrete examples.

I had a 2018 13" Macbook Pro and XPS 13 running Ubuntu. Former with Retina, latter with 4k. The Macbook's battery on a daily basis was never a huge problem for me unless running heavy applications like video chat. The XPS 13 has to be tethered to the power brick to run at 4k for more than a few hours. During normal dev work, I can't really get more than 90 minutes where the Macbook would last maybe 4-5 hours.

I suspect it's deeper than better hardware. Linux laptops just have worse battery life (nb4 "just install X Y Z with apt", that's not an acceptable solution when the OS is installed by the OEM and driver stability is still a problem on Linux laptops)