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China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

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321–330 of 420 posts

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. This seems... economically confused. Billions flowing in from the West reflect the fact that China's internal economy is strong. If it fell apart, no money would flow in.

It means that the productivity of the Chinese economy, and thus the ability of the CCP to siphon off some of that for things like building mass detention facilities, is dependent upon foreign demand. It is doubtful that China has enough domestic consumption demand to keep everyone gainfully employed if foreign demand dried up. But it’s hard to say what would actually happen.

> and thus the ability of the CCP to siphon off some of that for things like building mass detention facilities, is dependent upon foreign demand

Way off the mark. You could have an economy on par with North Korea and build those facilities. China's economy is 100+ times larger than it needs to be to build the facilities they're building in Xinjiang. If you rolled their economy back to 1990 on a GDP per capita basis, they could still get it done with zero problems. Concrete, barbed wire, guards, guns and slave labor are most of the necessary ingredients. The most primitive of nations have what's necessary to do it.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what the ‘cancel culture’ comment is supposed to mean. There are a million tweets condemning China’s behavior... way more than the number of tweets targeting people who are ‘cancelled’ The difference is that tweets can effect a regular person’s life, and they are ‘cancelled’. China doesn’t care. A company will act to fire a single person who behaves badly because of consumer pressure; it doesn’t co…

A really good "code smell" for political bullshit is when a person or idea is simultaneously an ineffectual loser and a grave, powerful, insidious force. Closely related to the notion that the leader is simultaneously both a powerful winner and a powerless victim. "cancel culture" here is both powerful and dangerous enough to bring down Western civilization, yet so laughably weak it cannot even pretend to solve real…

Respectfully I think the Umberto Eco line is a surface observation.

Any strength misdirected is simultaneously “too strong” and “too weak”.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#323
post #74

To those that believe that they would not have turned a blind eye during WWII to the systematic extermination of Jews, the current generation has been given a similar challenge. Where is your cancel-culture now? How will our children think of us?

As mentioned elsewhere what’s happening here is not extermination like the Holocaust but it’s also worse than Japanese internment that everyone denounces as having been a very bad thing... Yet, companies continue doing business and in some cases abetting the policy. Some of these companies will be the IBMs and Fords as well as the Wolksvagens and Thiessens but it’s pernicious and people don’t notice. But in retrospec…

"Japanese internment that everyone denounces as having been a very bad thing"

If WW3 starts and Chinese internment camps start popping up you'll find out that what people say in peacetime and what they actually think are two very different things.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#324

Imagine how much positive impact Bezos could have on this if Amazon led the way on identifying China’s reliance on western money to continue funding cultural genocide. He could spend have of his money on this and still have $100,000,000,000 to play with.

Bezos must do what is right and delist China products or atleast enforce country of origin on Amazon products

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#325
post #159

Buzzfeednews article on hackernews. slowly turning into reddit

I'm amazed how this link even made it to the HN front page. What's the relevance does this article have for hacker news?

You've been a member for long enough to know that the guidelines for posts are: "Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups"

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#326
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Uighur people are imprisoned solely for being not in the right/approved (i)religious and ethnic group. It's like if Germany decided to imprison or expel Romanians because they're mostly orthodox East Europeans.

Yes, that's the argument, but I'm sure that the CCP will say that it's not accurate and they're imprisoned at a much higher frequency than other groups because of their behavior, not because of their ethnicity or religion. The problem becomes more obvious when you look at incarceration rates in the US. Of course, the US says "that's not racist, they just commit more crimes". And we (as in "Western societies") tend to…

The CCP can try painting whatever picture they like. It's obvious from many angles that they're building concentration camps where people are forced to prison labor, organ harvesting and brainwashing. And then there are regular prisons.

The whataboutism you're trying to push into the discussion isn't leading anywhere. I'm sure you'll find plenty of opportunities to discuss the US prison system, but this isn't one. Here we have people who have wronged nothing being labeled as extremists and then put into concentration camps.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#327
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber. For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, an…

Yeah... I hear you and I think there’s a valid point here, but let’s not draw false equivalencies. Mass forced detention of entire ethnic groups is not comparable to systemic racism. One can argue that the US is systemically racist but we did elect a black president.

To avoid confusion it might be useful to define what systemic racism means today. The words have changed meaning slightly over the last 60 years.

https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racis...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#328
It's important to realize that Xinjiang is a colony of China. China took over Xinjiang in the past few hundred years; historically, kingdoms there were independent. Sometimes they had tributary relationships, other times they were allies of the Chinese kingdoms. Colonialism takes many forms and Europeans don't have a monopoly on it. The Uyghurs have rebelled many times and even formed short-lived states, the last before the Mao era. What was a territorial annexation has taken on ideological (the Chinese state demanded ideological adherence in art and politics just like in the rest of China ), economic (Xinjiang is rich in mineral resources), and settler-colonial (Han Chinese have been moving into Xinjiang in large numbers) aspects.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"July 2009 Ürümqi riots" Those were just peaceful protests.

You're referring to the peaceful protests that deteriorated into days of violence which killed 197+ people and injured thousands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio...

For what it’s worth, following the thread in the Wikipedia article it looks like the major facts trace back to Chinese state media.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#330

To those that believe that they would not have turned a blind eye during WWII to the systematic extermination of Jews, the current generation has been given a similar challenge. Where is your cancel-culture now? How will our children think of us?

What's happening there is despicable. But to the best of my knowledge there's no extermination. There aren't hundreds of thousands being shot or gassed. It looks more like a "cultural genocide", the kind we saw exercised against the Tibetans. I understand the emotions over this issue, and I don't think the holocaust is beyond comparison, but in this instance the comparison falls short.

There are forced abortions and sterilizations which are counted as actual genocidw by UN (not just "cultural genocide")
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