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China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

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Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#191

Post by vertex-four »

thecleaner wrote: post #114
thecleaner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancel culture never had any attention of pushing forward any reasonable change. It was mostly a tool for people to pretend that they somehow had an lasting positive impact on the world in the most convenient way. Boycotting goods made in China and substituting them with those made elsewhere is not as convenient. So cancel culture people and pretty much everyone else will pretend and argue such a measure will have no…

I really do not understand the downvoting here. The one reply on this comment says that we are not that powerful. Greta Thrunberg literally wrote a book saying this is not the case.

I must admit that I have not read Greta Thunberg's book, but if it has a solution to capitalism's demand that we make sacrifices to our personal morals or starve in the specific instance of the tooling we need to perform our work, I'd love to hear it. You don't get to say "I am not using computers any more as they contain components made in China" and keep your job as a software developer, and you'd be very unlikely to receive unemployment benefits.

The only way we're getting there is actual organisation and uprising to overthrow the capitalism which requires that we make those sacrifices, and frankly... it's not going to happen any time soon. People broadly agreed to the National Guard being sent in to handle some people who were mostly demanding that the police stop killing them, can you imagine what would happen if those people were actually calling to overthrow the state?

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#192

Post by logicchains »

take_a_breath wrote: post #136
logicchains wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because whatever Trump apparently did is way worse than China apparently sticking a million Muslims in concentration camps?

What has Trump done to stop the concentration camps aside from praise their leader and sell products made there?

This poster gave some examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24304367

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#193

Post by ahoy »

Darmody wrote: post #10
TheUndead96 wrote: post #2

To those that believe that they would not have turned a blind eye during WWII to the systematic extermination of Jews, the current generation has been given a similar challenge. Where is your cancel-culture now? How will our children think of us?

Some of us don't have much power. I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. People like Lebron James, who thinks of himself like a freedom fighter, when he criticized China he ended up saying he was misinformed and he wasn't educated about the issue. He loves the money coming from China more than anything else. I want him to be reminded by this. He put his millions before human lives, just like some n…

"The real problem is that lebron james is a hypocrite" ok man

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#194

Post by logicchains »

derwiki wrote: post #180
lordnacho wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you quite aware of how much blood is spilled when China goes through political turmoil? Aside from the world wars, a huge chunk of the top 10 bloodiest conflicts in history are Chinese internal conflicts. You're asking people who understand very well that standing up for a new government is going to be extremely costly. In the meantime, you want to deprive them of work. Ever wonder how those two things are connec…

Do you have a source for the ten bloodiest conflicts? Not saying you’re wrong just curious. Tiananmen Square and maybe some cultural revolution moments come to mind. But I also haven’t studied much Chinese history, which is why I’m curious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#195

Post by mschuster91 »

Darmody wrote: post #178
qiqing wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the impact of your forum posts, boycotts, and all that on US government policy?

There's a huge difference. China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. Now, if we change that by let's say moving factories back home or to Africa, they'll be in trouble. If you're a Chinese citizen, first of all you don't have…

> That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them.

... and if that fails, take citizens of countries they're at cold war with as hostages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-c...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#196

Post by throwaway4good »

TheUndead96 wrote: post #2

To those that believe that they would not have turned a blind eye during WWII to the systematic extermination of Jews, the current generation has been given a similar challenge. Where is your cancel-culture now? How will our children think of us?

But what if it wasn't actually true? Just like most of the reporting leading up to the major wars of the past many decades.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#197

Post by pessimizer »

raverbashing wrote: post #113
me_me_me wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> core tenant of communism Yes, that is why Lennin and especially Stalin were made into godlike figures. Mao is a prophet/father of the china also painted as infallible. And lets not forget about North Korea... ummm Peoples Republic that is Celestial Dictatorship. Marx was rolling in his grave when 'communism' was implemented across the world's nations.

Ah yes, it was never "true communism", the favourite excuse of the more extreme left. It kinda matches the "everything I don't like is communism" of the most extreme right.

No, it matches the "it's not true capitalism" of the extreme-right libertarian in being absolutely true according to the ideology that they follow. It's not an excuse, but something you can verify by reading the thinkers they follow. If I change my name to "Mr. Real Democracy," people who believe in democracy aren't forced to take responsibility for my crimes.

The "everything I don't like is communism" isn't even extreme right, it's the entire right. It has nothing to do with beliefs, it's a pretense to use violence to suppress political disagreement. It's akin to the "everything I don't like is fascism" of the woke liberal.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#198

Post by qiqing »

grugagag wrote: post #153
qiqing wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the impact of your forum posts, boycotts, and all that on US government policy?

It depends on a lot of factors such as who and how many see your posts, how much you consume and how much you boycott etc. If you’re alone the impact is small but if others are starting to follow suit the number goes up fast and the voice becomes stronger. It is easy to think the impact is nill and that’s exactly how the opressor wants you to think, no wonder the divide and conquer is a strategy that works. But every…

Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber.

For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, and the systemic racism she experienced.

The ally training skills I learned in the US were helpful. The more typical high-minded condescension, in contrast, tends to be counterproductive in my experience.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#199

Post by lolsal »

ericmay wrote: post #152
lolsal wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do get annoyed with people who "complain online'. That's just a waste of time. It's really not. I learned about this situation by reading complaints and passive comments online.

Let me clarify: I believe it's a waste of time if we're also not complaining to our elected representatives. If 10,000 people read this article and got annoyed, and then we made 10,000 phone calls, things would happen. If 10 people pick up the phone... not so much.

> Let me clarify: I believe it's a waste of time if we're also not complaining to our elected representatives.

I still disagree with your clarification. Even ten phone calls are better than zero.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#200

Post by mc32 »

derwiki wrote: post #174
JackFr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s something terrible about the primary system and it’s not obvious how to fix it. It is ostensibly more representative than the system which came before it, but honestly it seems in the past 20 years to have delivered extraordinarily low quality candidates for both parties more often than not. It’s not clear what the solution is though.

What was better about primary candidates pre-2000?

Counterintuitively primaries are more democratic now compared to before when backroom dealing often had more sway.

Maybe what's happening now is that early on in primaries enthusiastic voters vote for fresh kids, then as things progress more seasoned voters vote for more established candidates but by then most good established candidates have dropped off and we’re left with the second bests and hangers on.

Kind of a paradox of choice in the political arena.

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