Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis

#31

Post by anonymoushn » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 6:54 AM UTC

bloak wrote: post #15

spacephysics wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here is where environmentalism becomes anti-human, and frankly cult like. Nothing against vasectomies, I’ll probably get one once I have a few kids. But putting the environment before the propagation of our species is unique to us, and I think a sinister thought pattern. Oh well, if enough extreme environmentalists share the same thought, then there will be no more extreme environmentalists. I’m all for doing our…

> if enough extreme environmentalists share the same thought, then there will be no more extreme environmentalists. Are you suggesting that being an "extreme environmentalist" is an inherited characteristic? Presumably not, because that would be ... eccentric, so what are you suggesting? > social pressure, if not force In most developed countries the population is falling or would be falling if it weren't for immigra…

Is there some explanation for the absence of Quakers other than the idea that children are likely to have the same religion as their parents?

Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis

#32

Post by jl6 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:35 AM UTC

tuatoru wrote: post #30

jl6 wrote: post #3

But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?

> why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time? We don't need to. Overpopulation has already been addressed. Look at the CIA's World Factbook list of countries by total fertility rate. Most countries are below replacement fertility; most of the rest are rapidly approaching that state. There is only one region of concern, sub-Saharan Africa, and even there total fertility rate is falling quite quickly.…

But the decline in global fertility rates is driven by improving women’s education, access to contraception, improving infant healthcare, and economic opportunity for the developing world - all things which population campaigners have been pushing for decades.

To declare it solved feels like saying we don’t need the Clean Air Act because the air is now clean, when it’s the Clean Air Act which is responsible for that!

Yes, there are encouraging signs that the world population is going to level out, but let’s not take our foot off the gas on all the measures that got us here just yet?

Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis

#33

Post by webmaven » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

bdjsjsbdb wrote: post #4

jl6 wrote: post #3

But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?

The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either: a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans) b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do You're b…

> The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either:

> a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans)

> b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low

> c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do

I think there is a plausible scenario where wealth becomes even more concentrated such that most Americans join the globally poor (this reduces the number of globally wealthy without reducing their consumption, after which you can assume scenario B). This is more or less the setup for the one-season TV series "Incorporated".

Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis

#34

Post by dencodev » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

dencodev wrote: post #22

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want have kids that continue to contribute to the destruction of our planet by just being regular Americans. ... so that the planet is preserved for the descendants of less environmentally responsible human beings?

Yes. Just because someone is irresponsible and votes for governments that actively work to let these awful things happen doesn't mean they deserve to die from the effects of climate change.

HN downvotes the weirdest things.