Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#261

Post by bsder » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 3:32 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #115

DebtDeflation wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where Stripe suggested we alter the colors available What? Like flesh colored was ok but definitely not green ones or something?

The inverse of this. Here's their exact, hilarious wording: >Our banking partners recently notified us that they are no longer willing to support the sales of realistic sex toys. I understand that your products were designed to depict the body parts of mythological and fantastical creatures, and we have indicated this to our banking partners in an effort to advocate for continuing to support your business here on Str…

Wells-Fargo deserve to go bankrupt, but I believe the problem is the non-uniform nature of the law around sex toys.

Texas, for example, still has an idiotic law on the books that possession of more than 6 dildoes is illegal.

Because of that, many online sex toy shops simply will not ship anything to Texas.

The law has been struck down in US Federal court, but there have been convictions in state courts despite that.

Talking about the raid on Forbidden Fruit in Austin, TX (Caution: NSFW): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/15365042198306...

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#262

Post by haltingproblem » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 3:44 AM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #200

haltingproblem wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an incredibly frustrating read. I know, I know there are far worse things in the world but fucking Wells Fargo dictating to people when they evict homeowners who have no relationship with Wells Fargo, commit wholesale wire fraud, destroy people's credit and then turn around and lecture a honest business. This is why banking is a rent-seeking and though we need the financial industry they are ghoulish vampires…

> we need the financial industry Do we, though? I don't know whether the answer is distributed blockchains, or the Department of the Treasury creating an API for USD, or both; but the current banking system seems to me like the legacy code of feudal landed aristocrats. (I will never stop being disappointed that we didn't let the financial system crash in 2009.)

We do. The scale of financialization of our lives, our society is pervasive, invisible and touches every aspect of our lives.

Our housing. Our utilities. Our communications. Our food. Everything is financed. There is debt financing these companies. Many of whom would not exist. As one of my professors told me - you see a building, I see a mortgage.

Most of our economy would vanish without credit. Take a look at Islamic economies where debt and credit is fairly circumscribe and you see they much much smaller economies (ex-petro-dollar financed economies).

Block chain is just a payment mechanism? It is not even that, yet. There is a LOT more to finance than moving money around. That is maybe generously speaking 5% of global finance. I would say say more like 1%.

Sigh.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#263

Post by sneak » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 3:51 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #251

sneak wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there is as quite widespread consensus that all federal crimes are legitimately crime as you seem to think. Marijuana sales, for example, seem extremely popular. Just because there’s a law in place at some remote level of jurisdiction doesn’t mean it’s just, or has popular support.

Widespread consensus doesn't determine what is and isn't a crime. The law does. Until the federal law changes, marijuana sales are a federal crime. Technically speaking, no state can actually "legalize" it.

You’re absolutely right, of course.

Widespread consensus heavily influences prosecutorial discretion though, which determines in practice what is or isn’t permitted by society.

The law is not a computer program, and it is applied entirely arbitrarily.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#264

Post by ashtonkem » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:41 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #87

Cascading payments might be the real answer, and shuffling higher risk charges to non-Stripe providers, but in my experience, Stripe can get pretty moralizing pretty quickly. We built an adult ecommerce site (purely toys for purchase, no porn) and because other adult toy sites had been successful on Stripe, Stripe assured us this wouldn't be a problem. Six months and several million dollars processed later, Stripe in…

Seriously? Colors? What colors were beyond the pale (pun intended) for them?

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#265

Post by ashtonkem » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:42 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #159

fpgaminer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It absolutely disgusts me the power that payment processors have over businesses. The sooner that industry is dismantled and made agnostic the better. I remember watching some BDSM website's documentary where they talked about how their payment processor dictated the kind of content they were allowed to make. It boggles my mind that people are okay with that. I also find it surp…

>> _help_ the sex industry thrive There are dark sides. It is not the friendly industry oft portrayed. It is an industry that thrives on the young and naive. It is regulated because it needs to be. Most common complaint heard by lawyers in the field: "I did the shoot, the movie is on the website, but I haven't been paid." Followed worryingly by: "They said I had to because I had signed a contract." The advice I give…

I’m fine with regulating the adult industry for safety and what not, I just think that credit card agencies are possibly one of the last parties I would pick to be the regulator, second only to religious institutions.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#266

Post by goatinaboat » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

zamfi wrote: post #150

disillusioned wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inverse of this. Here's their exact, hilarious wording: >Our banking partners recently notified us that they are no longer willing to support the sales of realistic sex toys. I understand that your products were designed to depict the body parts of mythological and fantastical creatures, and we have indicated this to our banking partners in an effort to advocate for continuing to support your business here on Str…

I have no skin in this game, but I have to wonder who is making these decisions and what their thought process is. What is the threat model, exactly? What eventuality is the bank seeking to avoid? Are there edge-case regulatory issues at play? Are there moral-consumer groups out there that run public pressure campaigns against banks that transact on adult toys that look too realistic? Is a corporate lawyer somewhere…

What is the threat model, exactly? What eventuality is the bank seeking to avoid?

The threat is that someone in compliance or legal doesn’t have enough real work to do so has to do “something” to keep their cushy job.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#267

Post by someperson » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

stx wrote: post #248

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alabama, Georgia, and Texas have laws restricting the sale and possession of sex toys.

Yep, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_obscenity_statute Looks like its never been enforced though. Really though laws that are not enforced are a bad thing because some day they could selectively be enforced. Also because they are not enforced and hence not affecting anyone, no one cares to get rid of them. "The Obscene Device Law is a Texas statute prohibiting the sale of sex toys. The law was introduced in 1973,…

> facially unconstitutional

Given the context I thought this was a humorous typo for 'farcically'. but it appears to refers to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_challenge

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#268

Post by rumanator » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 5:53 AM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #200

haltingproblem wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an incredibly frustrating read. I know, I know there are far worse things in the world but fucking Wells Fargo dictating to people when they evict homeowners who have no relationship with Wells Fargo, commit wholesale wire fraud, destroy people's credit and then turn around and lecture a honest business. This is why banking is a rent-seeking and though we need the financial industry they are ghoulish vampires…

> we need the financial industry Do we, though? I don't know whether the answer is distributed blockchains, or the Department of the Treasury creating an API for USD, or both; but the current banking system seems to me like the legacy code of feudal landed aristocrats. (I will never stop being disappointed that we didn't let the financial system crash in 2009.)

> Do we, though?

Why, yes? Isn't it blatantly obvious? What exactly leads you to believe we don't?

> I don't know whether the answer is distributed blockchains, or the Department of the Treasury creating an API for USD, or both;

I'm dumbfounded how someone even comes close to believe that any one of these ideas comes even close to provide the service that financial institutions provide. Either you have a very specific and very niche usecase in mind, or maybe you have absolutely no idea about the services that financial institutions provide to society.

> but the current banking system seems to me like the legacy code of feudal landed aristocrats.

This comment leads me to believe that you are confusing stuff that has no relation whatsoever. Your dislike of caricatures and ideological strawmen you associated with financial services has absolutely no relation with the services provided to society by the whole banking industry. Just because you don't like Scrooge McDuck that doesn't mean most of us don't depend on loans to, say, buy a house or a car or store our savings or pay for everyday stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#269

Post by rkagerer » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 5:57 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #261

disillusioned wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inverse of this. Here's their exact, hilarious wording: >Our banking partners recently notified us that they are no longer willing to support the sales of realistic sex toys. I understand that your products were designed to depict the body parts of mythological and fantastical creatures, and we have indicated this to our banking partners in an effort to advocate for continuing to support your business here on Str…

Wells-Fargo deserve to go bankrupt, but I believe the problem is the non-uniform nature of the law around sex toys. Texas, for example, still has an idiotic law on the books that possession of more than 6 dildoes is illegal. Because of that, many online sex toy shops simply will not ship anything to Texas. The law has been struck down in US Federal court, but there have been convictions in state courts despite that.…

Thanks for sharing, that article is well worth the read.

...the confiscated items were paraded in front of a Grand Jury tasked with determining whether they were obscene...

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#270

Post by rumanator » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

ballenf wrote: post #209

chrisco255 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An API for USD centrally controlled by the Treasury? Kiss your financial freedom goodbye. You gotta demand it be distributed blockchains or you'll be living in chains.

At least you'd have due process and couldn't be deplatformed for legal activity. Now you have neither. The current system has zero privacy, so no change there. Not seeing the downside. Federally illegal activity like marijuana wouldn't benefit, but most things would.

> At least you'd have due process and couldn't be deplatformed for legal activity. Now you have neither.

I don't understand your train of thought. I mean, you are arguing for a monopoly controlling a centralized service just because one of the many freely available payment platforms you personally choosed may have terms of service you might break?

How is that a solution?

It seems you are not arguing for a solution to the problem you framed. You're instead confusing wishful thinking with a solution to the problem. I mean, your suggestions don't even qualify as unintended consequences: they are only unrealistic and absurd expectations from a reform that has absolutely no relation to the problem.