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How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

nature.com

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Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#361

Post by ranbumo »

mdorazio wrote: post #214
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of the points made by q3k, about this being a US centric issue, being projected as a global issue, why do you believe this implementation will be able to deliver global pervasive internet? The obejective is noble but can you provide any realistic data or estimates of how this infrastructure can scale to more than a few million users and _still_ be high bandwith. Beyond that your bandwith will go down as you ad…

1) Why do you think people in subsaharan Africa, for example, won't be able to use it? 2) The only limitation on bandwidth (and thus users) is the number of satellites in orbit. If the constellation bandwidth is saturated, launch more satellites and you get more bandwidth. 3) I guess you'll just ignore the use cases for the tens of millions of non-rich people who literally can't get decent internet because it doesn't…

Is there any expectation that a local in Africa or sea would be able to afford starlink rates? I haven't seen pricing information yet, but I'd be very surprised if that was the case.

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#362

Post by ranbumo »

valuearb wrote: post #229
RedShift1 wrote: post #7

This is bad. This is really really bad. The EU has invested billions in telescopes and that's now going to go to waste. Instead advancing human knowledge it's just going to fill rich guy pockets even more.

No, it’s not. Starlink satellites are only visible at dusk and dawn, they are in the earths shadow during prime viewing hours. And SoaceX has already added visors to make new Starlink satellites nearly invisible.

All 30-50k satellites? SpaceX and Amazon are sending stuff up now. I expect these numbers to multiply quickly. And not just with US satellites. China and other nations might just send similar numbers up

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#364

Post by DoingIsLearning »

mdorazio wrote: post #214
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of the points made by q3k, about this being a US centric issue, being projected as a global issue, why do you believe this implementation will be able to deliver global pervasive internet? The obejective is noble but can you provide any realistic data or estimates of how this infrastructure can scale to more than a few million users and _still_ be high bandwith. Beyond that your bandwith will go down as you ad…

1) Why do you think people in subsaharan Africa, for example, won't be able to use it? 2) The only limitation on bandwidth (and thus users) is the number of satellites in orbit. If the constellation bandwidth is saturated, launch more satellites and you get more bandwidth. 3) I guess you'll just ignore the use cases for the tens of millions of non-rich people who literally can't get decent internet because it doesn't…

See my other comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293352

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#365

Post by beached_whale »

freeone3000 wrote: post #290
beached_whale wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, Canada, even less dense, is doing exactly that. Maybe not 10, but at multiple levels of government there have been up to half the capital without many strings attached to get broadband out to rural areas. My understanding though, it's not work the time even with the fibre there for the larger companies in many cases. This is the latest program https://www.canada.ca/en/radio-television-telecommunications...

Sure, and the US had a similar program. Just because the government promised something doesn't count until the thing is actually delivered.

I know of at least some of the communities on the James Bay coast recently got fibre service and I think others along the Northern coast of Canada, along anecdotally several others in rural Ontario.

I am talking about money already spent and delivered, not future project that will probably be delivered on.

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#366

Post by athriren »

valuearb wrote: post #325
astrophysician wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...wow. (1) astronomers are pretty darn aware of everything going on, and it's really shocking as an astronomer to see these sorts of claims. There have been close collaborations with Space X to try to mitigate some issues, but these are partial mitigations and the most important ones are only planned, not implemented. The "successful" mitigations I think you're referring to is their "DarkSat" coating, which is not a…

SpaceX has just implemented sun Visors on the latest batch of satellites, so why aren’t you aware of that? In space infrared detectors are the most effective way of searching for dangerous NEOs, and SpaceX has made them far cheaper to launch. How come you don’t know that? https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nasem_r...

how come you are so condescending?

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#367

Post by stickfigure »

gorgoiler wrote: post #300
mmaunder wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid you will die on that hill and be replaced by a happy rural resident who was being abused by a local telco monopoly, but is now using competitively priced, fast, low latency satellite internet. Using keps and scrubbing exposures in post is something we could already do decades ago. It’ll just be a new part of the workflow and eventually the space NIMBYs will quiet down.

Spaceships and radio waves are cool and provide a unique solution. Let’s not pretend this was the one true way to get around Comcast et al’s stranglehold though. That problem could have been solved politically with regulation plus (in the countryside) ground based radio, or (in cities) with regulation of cable infrastructure such that it was separated from packet-routing and customer-service. If satellite ISPs genuin…

I don't think you really have any idea what it's like to live somewhere truly rural. Cable and DSL companies do not serve these places.

Ground-based radio requires line-of-sight to somewhere with both power and an uplink. Nevermind "third-world" countries - the vast majority of the United States, by square foot, does not have this. Rural wireless is incredibly dependent upon topography, many places will just never get it.

I live one hour from SF. I have rural wireless broadband (bounced off a solar relay I installed on a hill). It's terrible, but I'm still one of the lucky ones - most of the properties we looked at when shopping did not have this access, and the only internet option was Hughes.

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#368

Post by sedgjh23 »

q3k wrote: post #52
reitzensteinm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe that pervasive high speed internet even in remote locations will do more for humanity than the scientific cost of these satellites. However, this conversation has basically been skipped over. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. The constellations are being launched, and there's zero chance of shutting them down once they're serving a commercial role. Considering the abundant red tape in the modern…

> I personally believe that pervasive high speed internet even in remote locations will do more for humanity than the scientific cost of these satellites. I've had faster Internet than the average Starlink speedtest says, in rural Romania, at the foot of a mountain, wild bears and all: https://twitter.com/q3k/status/1172621386977861632 . Internet access in rural areas is pretty much a solved problem, it just now hing…

In the United States it is far from solved.

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#369

Post by gorgoiler »

stickfigure wrote: post #367
gorgoiler wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spaceships and radio waves are cool and provide a unique solution. Let’s not pretend this was the one true way to get around Comcast et al’s stranglehold though. That problem could have been solved politically with regulation plus (in the countryside) ground based radio, or (in cities) with regulation of cable infrastructure such that it was separated from packet-routing and customer-service. If satellite ISPs genuin…

I don't think you really have any idea what it's like to live somewhere truly rural. Cable and DSL companies do not serve these places. Ground-based radio requires line-of-sight to somewhere with both power and an uplink. Nevermind "third-world" countries - the vast majority of the United States , by square foot, does not have this. Rural wireless is incredibly dependent upon topography, many places will just never g…

I appreciate the counterpoint as part of this discussion, though I personally grew up on a rural fruit farm which is currently served by a wind turbine powered hilltop relay (~4Mbps long range WiFi) and copper cable DSL (~7Mbps.)

The valley is 400’ deep and has 50 copper pairs coming up the side, of which 20 come to the road the house is on, and 10 remain by the time you get to the family property. 3 more are taken by properties down the way, so 7 pairs (or ~50Mbps) lay unused. It would be interesting if the copper was changed to a 100% utilization rate.

The point though is there is power and copper telephone at the site. And a road! At some point, someone managed to invest in infrastructure for this house. In some sense it’s quite disheartening that the only modern equivalent to that kind of infrastructure investment is the spaceship endrun around the incumbents.

Re: How satellite ‘megaconstellations’ will photobomb astronomy images

#370

Post by gorgoiler »

tssva wrote: post #92
gambiting wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, if China launched thousands of satellites ruining everyone's astronomy efforts I'm sure there would be an uproar. But US doing it? Fine, business as usual.

The US isn't doing it. Companies are doing it. As stated in the article the company which is currently planning to place satellites at a height likely to have the greatest impact is OneWeb which is a UK company. It is soon to be controlled by the UK government and an Indian conglomerate. The satellites it launches are built by a joint venture which includes Airbus.

”The US isn’t doing it”

Point of order: intercontinental missiles, rockets, and radio telecommunications are highly regulated industries. The US regulators have approved (and not stopped) Starlink on both fronts. I do not know if there’s any international / UN body that performs the same roles?

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