Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#181

Post by lovegoblin » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

HenryBemis wrote: post #174

bb88 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm curious about is whether or not OnlyFans has bribed off Wells Fargo -- I mean it could be in a legal way for financial services that are non existent. In other words, Stripe allows OnlyFans because Wells Fargo has been bought off on the side. Ergo, Wells Fargo doesn't complain anymore. How much would that need to be with Wells Fargo? 10 million per year? 50 million? Does OnlyFans make enough to afford 100 mi…

I read this on some legit news site a few days ago: apparently Bella Thorne, a formed Disney actress-turned-pornstar(?) joined OnlyFans and hit $1m in 24 hours. I don't follow OnlyFans progress and I have no idea how many "content creators" they got and what is the "fanbase", but if a 20yo nobody with a nice body can take $1m in 24h (then I assume that is with 1-3-6-... months subscriptions)(so she won't bring in ano…

lmao Bella Thorne is not a "20yo nobody". She had tens of millions of followers before joining OnlyFans.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#182

Post by stu2b50 » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:19 PM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #175

mrdumas wrote: post #56

Since, I know a friend in this industry, let me explain what's going on here. Yes, OnlyFans uses Stripe, but that's not the entire story. In the adult/porn world, there's a high amount of chargebacks and fraud relative to low-risk industries like SaaS software. If you pass a certain chargeback threshold in the adult industry, your account is terminated, and no payment processor will do business with you. To reduce th…

> I think Stripe is there for models on the site who don't sell adult content. OnlyFans probably does a check to see if the page is adult-related and if it is, then routes it to the correct payment processor. How would the bank even know that transactions for adult-content pages were routed away from it? Wouldn't they just all come in as "OnlyFans wants $20 from card XYZ?"

I'm guessing it would be negotiated terms between all three parties. Onlyfans ensures in their contract that they only route non-adult payments to Stripe, Stripe tells Wells Fargo to chill. Maybe some audits along the way to keep WF happy.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#183

Post by Noos » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #153

Often, when the market doesn't provide an essential gateway service to a law-abiding subpopulation, some sort of 'public option' is proposed. Not enough market housing, offer public/subsidized options. Not enough low- or no-cost private education, offer public schools. Too little affordable healthcare/insurance, offer Medicaid, a 'public option', single-payer. Public transport. Should the government offer a 'public o…

You have this already. It's called "using checks and money orders."

The problem is that people want the convenience credit cards use, and don't want to wait for the check to clear to get their stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#184

Post by cj » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

rebelidealist wrote: post #162

mrdumas wrote: post #56

Since, I know a friend in this industry, let me explain what's going on here. Yes, OnlyFans uses Stripe, but that's not the entire story. In the adult/porn world, there's a high amount of chargebacks and fraud relative to low-risk industries like SaaS software. If you pass a certain chargeback threshold in the adult industry, your account is terminated, and no payment processor will do business with you. To reduce th…

"Last time I checked the network requests, I noticed it was storing the card on Stripe, CCBill, and Securion, but using CCBill or Securion to process the payment." Im curious about how to use Stripe to only store cards and let other processors make the charge. Would anyone have more info on this? Greatly appreciate it.

> how to use Stripe to only store cards and let other processors make the charge

1) Have the user submit their card info on your payment page

2) Simultaneously send the card info to the 3 processors

3) Then process the charge through just 1 of the 3 processors, leaving the others open to be used later

(At least with Stripe) the process of saving a credit card to Stripe and actually charging the card are 2 independent API calls. Nothing stops you from saving card info to your payment processor(s) without actually charging it.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#185

Post by CobrastanJorji » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #180

disillusioned wrote: post #87

Cascading payments might be the real answer, and shuffling higher risk charges to non-Stripe providers, but in my experience, Stripe can get pretty moralizing pretty quickly. We built an adult ecommerce site (purely toys for purchase, no porn) and because other adult toy sites had been successful on Stripe, Stripe assured us this wouldn't be a problem. Six months and several million dollars processed later, Stripe in…

I don't really understand the motivation behind this puritanism. I get why respectable institutions don't want to touch things like selling weed or prostitution since that's not legal everywhere and they could get in trouble. But sex toys? Who cares? Like, that's not a rhetorical question, literally "who cares?" Are people going to stop using Wells Fargo because they very indirectly help in the commerce of sex toys?

A conservative, evangelical Christian answer would probably be something like "the point is to please each other, and sex toys are about pleasing yourself" or "sex toys encourage masturbation, which is a sin." Then you'd point out that many sex toys are meant for partners to use together, and they might reply back "ah, but Genesis says that husband and wife should be one flesh, not flesh and plastic" but would probably ultimate agree that sex toys, when used exclusively between a cis-male and cis-female, married couple, could be not sinful in some circumstances.

A cynic would probably say that, like many such issues, it's ultimately about maintaining control over women.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#186

Post by chki » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #180

disillusioned wrote: post #87

Cascading payments might be the real answer, and shuffling higher risk charges to non-Stripe providers, but in my experience, Stripe can get pretty moralizing pretty quickly. We built an adult ecommerce site (purely toys for purchase, no porn) and because other adult toy sites had been successful on Stripe, Stripe assured us this wouldn't be a problem. Six months and several million dollars processed later, Stripe in…

I don't really understand the motivation behind this puritanism. I get why respectable institutions don't want to touch things like selling weed or prostitution since that's not legal everywhere and they could get in trouble. But sex toys? Who cares? Like, that's not a rhetorical question, literally "who cares?" Are people going to stop using Wells Fargo because they very indirectly help in the commerce of sex toys?

I would guess that yes, they are actually worried about certain religious groups no longer doing business with them because they "support" "immoral" practices.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#187

Post by rumanator » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

fpgaminer wrote: post #143

disillusioned wrote: post #87

Cascading payments might be the real answer, and shuffling higher risk charges to non-Stripe providers, but in my experience, Stripe can get pretty moralizing pretty quickly. We built an adult ecommerce site (purely toys for purchase, no porn) and because other adult toy sites had been successful on Stripe, Stripe assured us this wouldn't be a problem. Six months and several million dollars processed later, Stripe in…

Thank you for sharing your experience. It absolutely disgusts me the power that payment processors have over businesses. The sooner that industry is dismantled and made agnostic the better. I remember watching some BDSM website's documentary where they talked about how their payment processor dictated the kind of content they were allowed to make. It boggles my mind that people are okay with that. I also find it surp…

> With sex being such a huge part of our lives, why aren't we bending out backs to _help_ the sex industry thrive, instead of defending corrupt oligopolies?

Because the "sex industry" is a bunch of corrupt oligopolies?!

I mean, we're talking about a business that thrives on human trafficking and exploitation and preying on the weak and vulnerable and defenseless. We're talking about an industry whose business model depends on an endless supply of defenseless gullible victims that see their lives thrown into the furnace to keep it running for just another instance.

Was it so long ago that one of the biggest porn sites in the history of the internet was caught knowingly hosting and refusing to take down videos of abducted underage girls getting raped?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/pornhub-petition-ra...

The banking industry is not innocent, but let's not pretend the sex industry is a paragon of virtue in comparison.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#188

Post by pyuser583 » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

HenryBemis wrote: post #174

bb88 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm curious about is whether or not OnlyFans has bribed off Wells Fargo -- I mean it could be in a legal way for financial services that are non existent. In other words, Stripe allows OnlyFans because Wells Fargo has been bought off on the side. Ergo, Wells Fargo doesn't complain anymore. How much would that need to be with Wells Fargo? 10 million per year? 50 million? Does OnlyFans make enough to afford 100 mi…

I read this on some legit news site a few days ago: apparently Bella Thorne, a formed Disney actress-turned-pornstar(?) joined OnlyFans and hit $1m in 24 hours. I don't follow OnlyFans progress and I have no idea how many "content creators" they got and what is the "fanbase", but if a 20yo nobody with a nice body can take $1m in 24h (then I assume that is with 1-3-6-... months subscriptions)(so she won't bring in ano…

It’s been said before, but Bella Thorne isn’t a nobody. She has already existing fans she’s simply transferring to the platform.

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#189

Post by pyuser583 » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #115

DebtDeflation wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where Stripe suggested we alter the colors available What? Like flesh colored was ok but definitely not green ones or something?

The inverse of this. Here's their exact, hilarious wording: >Our banking partners recently notified us that they are no longer willing to support the sales of realistic sex toys. I understand that your products were designed to depict the body parts of mythological and fantastical creatures, and we have indicated this to our banking partners in an effort to advocate for continuing to support your business here on Str…

So dragon and unicorn dildos are OK, but human ones aren’t? WTF?

Re: Ask HN: How does onlyfans.com work around the “no porn” Stripe rule?

#190

Post by tehbeard » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 10:45 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #155

toxik wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this is hysterical! A bank saying no to honest money because it’s sex toys, not even that, because it’s sex toys looking like human genitalia, — no not even that, because the toys are skin colored! I wonder if this would ever happen in Europe. I somehow feel that we’re more... open to these things. Do you know about Klarna?

Interesting question. I checked out Klarna and Adyen which seems to be the most popular in Europe right now. Adyen lists "Adult entertainment, websites & content (such as)" as not allowed. https://www.adyen.com/dam/jcr:47f292a9-c9e2-4a69-8592-2e15ff... Klarna lists "Adult, sexual or pornographic products and services, including live web cam" as not allowed. https://cdn.klarna.com/1.0/shared/content/policy/ethic/en_gb…

... And yet ... https://www.lovehoney.co.uk/help/about-klarna/ ...

Whether they fly under "novelty items" or not, idk.