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Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

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Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#51

Post by badRNG »

ForHackernews wrote: post #35
RandallBrown wrote: post #7

This isn't a surprise. Google is a huge company with probably hundreds of teams working on these things. The fact that the privacy settings can be figured out at all is a bit of a miracle. I doubt the privacy settings are "designed" as much as it is a bunch of disparate teams working on it together with maybe somebody coordinating it.

Google is a trillion dollar company that employs some of the best software developers on earth. I have zero sympathy. Sort your shit out or prepare to have hostile regulators take a bat to your business model.

Considering both the wealth and caliber of engineering talent at Google, for this feature that has been at the center of attention for both regulators and the public to be as user hostile as it is, it certainly can lead a reasonable person to think that Google is intentionally misleading and confusing its users.

It seems the primary question worth considering now is what regulators are to do in response.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#53

Post by c22 »

bashinator wrote: post #40
Spooky23 wrote: post #6

There's a usability aspect to this. If you disable location services for Yelp, it's pretty unfriendly -- it chooses to make it as difficult as possible for you to use the app to get you to turn location back on. The Google approach for Maps is more pragmatic IMO -- lower resolution location data makes sure I don't get a McDonald's in Finland when I'm in Kentucky. The hard thing is that I don't want Yelp, Google, etc…

Interestingly, I _only_ use Yelp from a desktop browser with location disabled. And yet somehow it's still quite possible to enter my zip code and get accurate results.

I do this on mobile. It works fine except Yelp hides the zip code entry by default and the results "spin forever" as if your network is down until you re-select the search box to expose the zip code entry.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#54

Post by temporallobe »

TillE wrote: post #41

I noticed fairly recently that YouTube has undeniably started tracking my watch history even though I've had watch and search history turned off forever, and it's still turned off with (apparently) no data in it. On the front page, there are constantly recommendations of videos which I have just watched (not liked, commented, only watched). Old, new, whatever. Videos which would be quite random if I hadn't just watch…

This is why I have started using incognito mode for anything I wouldn’t want to appear in my YT watch history because I have experienced the same thing. Better yet, use a private browser like Chromium-based Epic.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#55

Post by troyvit »

Spooky23 wrote: post #6

There's a usability aspect to this. If you disable location services for Yelp, it's pretty unfriendly -- it chooses to make it as difficult as possible for you to use the app to get you to turn location back on. The Google approach for Maps is more pragmatic IMO -- lower resolution location data makes sure I don't get a McDonald's in Finland when I'm in Kentucky. The hard thing is that I don't want Yelp, Google, etc…

I don't have that problem with the yelp app. I turn off location services and search, and yelp lets me select from previously selected locations. Not much help when traveling though.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#56

Post by motohagiography »

Nothing is stupid, it works for someone. It's called a "dark pattern," (https://darkpatterns.org/) and it's by design.

Can pretty much guarantee the accountability for the design decisions goes to a "consensus," from a series of informal meetings, with no individual ownership, because that's also by design. I'm not involved with this at all, but having spent time in many different organizations as a consultant, this is very much a common strategy.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#57

Post by finnthehuman »

elchin wrote: post #49

As an ex-Googler it makes me sad that an internal discussion leaked like this.

You're sad about the existence of discovery in our legal system? Or is there something about the way the AG received the documents not covered in the article?

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#58

Post by typenil »

These dark patterns around location tracking was what finally made me give up on Android. I knew Google tracked location even when the location setting was turned off, so I had App & Web activity disabled.

As Google bricked more and more functionality to dis-incentivize disabling that setting, they dis-incentivized me right off the Android platform and off of the rest of their services.

They did me a favor, really. I was far too naive about them prior to that wake-up call.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#59

Post by princevegeta89 »

To be frank, the entire thing around "privacy checkup", and the way settings are presented to users to allow them to control what they want to share and what not to, is so damn confusing. I tried following my Privacy Settings, and every now and then, Google seems to revise/change existing settings by introducing new sharing settings, which are turned on by default.

Honestly, all of this seems to be a false painting to calm down Congress folks and other legal entities alongside users who are either amateur or those that "don't care" so that things don't blatantly look evil.

Re: Even Google engineers are confused about Google’s privacy settings

#60

Post by inetknght »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #14
Spooky23 wrote: post #6

There's a usability aspect to this. If you disable location services for Yelp, it's pretty unfriendly -- it chooses to make it as difficult as possible for you to use the app to get you to turn location back on. The Google approach for Maps is more pragmatic IMO -- lower resolution location data makes sure I don't get a McDonald's in Finland when I'm in Kentucky. The hard thing is that I don't want Yelp, Google, etc…

Apple is fixing this in iOS 14. It allows you to give an app access to only approximate location. Note that if your location history (precise every five minute location stored to your account) is off, Google won't even suggest a locally-stored list of previous locations you used with Maps. Which is an absolutist position that is usability-wise incredibly frustrating.

> Apple is fixing this in iOS 14. It allows you to give an app access to only approximate location.

I would rather have the ability give a custom location instead.

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