Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps • Hacker News Board

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#161

Post by fqye » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

If they were actual camps, can someone explain why they were all empty? No cars, no trucks, no detainees, no guards at all?

To supply and run a crowded camp, you need guards and logistics. Nothing there.

Nowadays, researchers could easily obtain satellites images showing actual activities with all those clues.

Just by looking at the images, it not possible to draw conclusion they were concentration camps. They could be barracks under construction and that would also explain why blanket at Baidu map. The report didn't explain its logic to conclude they were concentration camps. And they didn't even consider other possibilities at all.

It is not serious research.

Remember the satellite image analysis of Wuhan's hospitals' parking lots that was supposed to reveal the true scale of covid19 outbreak in Wuhan? High resolution images with all the details. Still lots of flaws and no one takes it seriously now.

New York Times obtained some leaked confidential documents of China's Xinjiang policies. Nothing even close to concentration camp was revealed. It actually did CCP some favor.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#162

Post by jessaustin » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #114

throwaway69123 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not American, but I assume you are referring to native americans, it is my understanding that the displacement of the native population occured before the federation of the US states, which would mean the perpetrators of this crime would be the colonizing countries, which would be Spain/France/England, surely?

> it is my understanding that the displacement of the native population occured before the federation of the US states, It started before that, sure. It very much continued after (into the 20th Century), and was a major feature of the post-independence westward expansion of the US.

USA's Pacific Ocean imperialism was never really distinguishable from its Western America colonialism. The same racist bastards (as in, the same actual army personnel: Jacob Hurd Smith, Leonard Wood, Blackjack Pershing, etc.) who killed lots of indigenous Americans also killed lots of indigenous Filipinos. The Bud Dajo Massacre was similar to that at Wounded Knee sixteen years earlier, except probably more diabolical.

Of course, the imperial conquest of Philippines presaged more USA imperial conquest elsewhere.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#163

Post by Lio » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 6:55 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #147

Lio wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, does this label apply to the United Kingdom or Canada? Why would it not? It's not like the head of state wields power in a parliamentary democracy. We cut the head off the last monarch to try that 1649, more than 100 years before either the French or US revolutions.

Gough Whitlam would not agree.

That’s the beauty of living in a democracy; he’s welcome to his own opinion and if wants to change things he can campaign for it.

Edit: ...although it looks like he’s dead so wouldn’t expect much in the way of speeches eh.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#164

Post by tomhoward » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #112

tomhoward wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC announced the closure of YC China last year. https://blog.ycombinator.com/an-update-on-yc-china/ There’s no “using another legal entity to do their bidding over there”. It’s just closed. That said, it’s not clear that it’s unequivocally morally superior to deny a service to all 1B+ Chinese people, many of whom could have been founders of great companies or customers/beneficiaries of those companies, just because o…

As the announcement mentions, Qi Lu continues to be active in the VC space with a new company, MiraclePlus, which calls itself "formerly YC China" on their website: https://www.miracleplus.com/

Presumably he calls it that because he’s using the same business strategy/model he was building for YC. But it seems quite clear that it’s not YC. The new entity is a standalone VC fund [1], and YC is a recipient of LP funds, not an LP in other VC funds. And besides, it would be hard for YC to keep any involvement quiet after making this kind of announcement.

[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1792939/000179293919...

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#165

Post by jessaustin » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

Grimm665 wrote: post #134

simonh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The section on separatism is unadulterated pro-authoritarianism. Examples of regions that have peacefully seceded from a nation abound. Norway from Sweden, Greenland and Iceland from Denmark, multiple states from the former Soviet Union. Scotland had a referendum on independence recently and though they chose to stay part of the UK, there was no threat or chance of violence. Freedom to seceded, or coerced union are b…

> The result is that the vast majority of official members of 'ethnic minorities' have virtually, or actually no connection with the ethnic culture, but get full say in how their 'minority' is represented and treated Your whole last paragraph was genuinely interesting and not something I've heard of before. Do you have a source I could read for more information?

This phenomenon is certainly not limited to China. Elizabeth Warren is the public example who comes to mind, although I suspect that many of us know people who claim particular backgrounds for their personal advantage.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#166

Post by free_rms » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

fqye wrote: post #161

If they were actual camps, can someone explain why they were all empty? No cars, no trucks, no detainees, no guards at all? To supply and run a crowded camp, you need guards and logistics. Nothing there. Nowadays, researchers could easily obtain satellites images showing actual activities with all those clues. Just by looking at the images, it not possible to draw conclusion they were concentration camps. They could…

It's a tough issue because it's hard to give the Chinese government credit for lack of evidence when they're not letting journalists in in the first place.

I looked into it a year ago and the strongest evidence I found at that point was two dudes drove around and took pictures of a bunch of facilities that looked like re-education camps. They guesstimated 100k-1M, one news article wrote "a million", then the rest of them started writing "millions", and hacker news commenters write "genocide".

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#167

Post by 762236 » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

fqye wrote: post #161

If they were actual camps, can someone explain why they were all empty? No cars, no trucks, no detainees, no guards at all? To supply and run a crowded camp, you need guards and logistics. Nothing there. Nowadays, researchers could easily obtain satellites images showing actual activities with all those clues. Just by looking at the images, it not possible to draw conclusion they were concentration camps. They could…

Governments have long known how to hide their sensitive activities from satellites, and to even provide misleading information.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#168

Post by coliveira » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

fqye wrote: post #161

If they were actual camps, can someone explain why they were all empty? No cars, no trucks, no detainees, no guards at all? To supply and run a crowded camp, you need guards and logistics. Nothing there. Nowadays, researchers could easily obtain satellites images showing actual activities with all those clues. Just by looking at the images, it not possible to draw conclusion they were concentration camps. They could…

Exactly, every image they say are from concentration camps only shows construction sites and factories, like thousand others all around China. There is no credibility in a claim when you just point to random images and say unsubstantiated things about them.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#169

Post by jessaustin » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

Lio wrote: post #163

jessaustin wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gough Whitlam would not agree.

That’s the beauty of living in a democracy; he’s welcome to his own opinion and if wants to change things he can campaign for it. Edit: ...although it looks like he’s dead so wouldn’t expect much in the way of speeches eh.

The Queen's viceroy dismissed him as elected prime minister in 1975.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#170

Post by gumby » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 7:23 PM UTC

This was supposedly a problem with a stealth ship designed by Lockheed’s “skunkworks”: against the choppy noise of waves and swell, a blank spot (of no radar return) stood out dramatically.