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Scrollbar Blindness

svenkadak.com

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Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#301

Post by olyjohn »

saagarjha wrote: post #254
Vinnl wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the corollary is "consider Ubuntu, but still don't skimp on hardware". Buy a proper laptop that ships with Ubuntu, buy a proper connector cable if you need one, etc.

I don't think paying more for hardware significantly changes the problem that was brought up.

I think what he is saying is, don't buy a cheap-ass Dell that runs Windows 10S, then expect to be development powerhouse where all the hardware works properly. He is suggesting buying a developer-oriented laptop that is designed and supported to be running Linux. You'll have less weird hardware quirks that way.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#302

Post by adrr »

doktorhladnjak wrote: post #135
x87678r wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> outside of your country ... most people do not have a Mac, I think you mean outside of the Bay Area. For PCs/Desktop Apple has like 12% market share in the US. 7% globally.

People in this bubble overestimate the popularity of anything Apple. I once had a discussion with a coworker at a major company known for its app, where I was complaining about an Android bug and he genuinely asked "does anybody even use Android?" And I responded, "only the majority of users in every country around the world including the US. It's even 50/50 on our app!" Afterward, I found the internal numbers for em…

IOS has much higher penetration when it comes to app installs. I’ve seen this both at a fintexh/challenger bank and multiple e-commerce companies. At the e-commerce company I am currently at, 80% of our traffic is IOS. IOS users are also higher value.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#304

Post by rriepe »

supernova87a wrote: post #18

I have to pile onto the criticism of the hidden scroll bars, and other similar features (like the hidden buttons of PDF viewers now, such as in Chrome). Discoverability is a problem. For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features, these things can be utterly mind-boggling and frustrating. Even I was stumped for a good minute the first time trying to print/save/download a PDF when…

> for what, a "clean" look?

It's to stop the offset shift. Pages with scrollbars and pages without have different document widths but the same viewport width.

When you click between the two, the page "shifts" half a scrollbar width if it's centered.

To fix this, Apple made the scrollbar an overlay. That stops the shifting. But then everything on any page with a scrollbar looks off-center.

To fix that, Apple made it disappear when it's not being used.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#305

Post by seemack »

Klathmon wrote: post #217
baggy_trough wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse than undiscoverable features are land mine features, where some subtle gesture triggers a wild and unwanted mode change. Extra credit if the mode change is hard to get out of.

There's a windows feature like this which I hate with a passion. If you grab a window and shake it side to side, it minimizes all open windows... So sometimes I'll grab a window to move to my left monitor, decide instead I want it on the right one, and suddenly everything is gone and I now need to go open every single window one at a time. It even took me months to understand that the shaking was what caused it. I wo…

I've been back on my windows machine recently for a new side project and, ironically, I've really enjoyed this feature.

It's akin to shaking my head before focusing on a specific task. I shake the task window and the other applications that I still want open but won't be using for a bit all hide away.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#306

Post by brute »

hellofunk wrote: post #178
jakub_g wrote: post #71

If you read between the lines, you should understand that the root cause of issue is the macOS developer monoculture. All you need is one Windows or Linux-based developer in your team to catch those kind of issues. But so many dev teams are macOS-only those days, whereas, apart from US and 2-3 other rich countries, 80%+ or even more of actual desktop users are Windows-based. (There are many other problems with macOS…

Lots of countries use a 12 hour clock, that’s a strange claim to make.

Judging from this [1], even more countries don't use it.

[1] https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/34950/which-large...

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#307

Post by iforgotpassword »

supernova87a wrote: post #18

I have to pile onto the criticism of the hidden scroll bars, and other similar features (like the hidden buttons of PDF viewers now, such as in Chrome). Discoverability is a problem. For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features, these things can be utterly mind-boggling and frustrating. Even I was stumped for a good minute the first time trying to print/save/download a PDF when…

It's funny how when the world ran at 640x480 we had scroll bars, separators and buttons with 3D effects, but nowadays with higher resolutions and bigger screens designers strive for the ultimate clean design. Hidden elements that appear when certain gestures are performed, flat buttons that are indistinguishable from labels/text with a colored background, borders and separators get removed or turned into barely visible thin lines.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#308

Post by dmitriid »

IncRnd wrote: post #235
dmitriid wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ths context is that testing is a solved problem. The only problem that is solved is running multiple browsers in VMs in a cloud. Everything else is anyone's guess. To come up with an automated test for the problem in the OP you have to be a) aware of the problem and b) have a way to test that scrollbars do/don't appear. Good luck with that.

> The only problem that is solved is running multiple browsers in VMs in a cloud. Everything else is anyone's guess. That false hyperbole. Just because you do not know something, that doesn't mean that nobody else does. > To come up with an automated test for the problem in the OP you have to be a) aware of the problem and b) have a way to test that scrollbars do/don't appear. Good luck with that. No luck is needed,…

> Just because you do not know something, that doesn't mean that nobody else does.

For the third time you've failed to show how to test for the problem described in OP. It tells me that you don't know

> test frameworks already exist for testing the screen for the presence of UI elements

Which ones test for the presence/absence of scrollbars?

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#309

Post by olyjohn »

saagarjha wrote: post #296
plorkyeran wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to call that "using the scroll bar".

iOS devices were not nearly performant enough to allow that until recently ;)

Not sure if you're being serious or not... I mean I thought these iPhones were faster than PCs. I've been able to scroll since I had my first 486.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#310

Post by stordoff »

madeofpalk wrote: post #152
elliekelly wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infinite scroll often make it nearly impossible to click on the site's privacy policy or terms of service in the page footer without going into dev tools. Whenever I come across that issue I wonder whether it's a feature or a bug.

Does this actually happen frequently?

I've tried to get to a contact link in the footer and been hindered by infinite scrolling on more than one occasion. I wouldn't say it happens a lot, but when it does it's frustrating.
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