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Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

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Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#141

Post by me_me_me »

free_rms wrote: post #59
jjcon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from an account created six hours ago it is kinda ironic you are suggesting they are a state actor with no refutation of the premises.

There are tons and tons of Chinese immigrants in our industry. It's not a stretch at all to assume that some read hacker news and are nationalistic. Assume good faith.

Assume good faith?

On the internet?

Assume good faith in 'random comment' from 'random person' on the internet.

Would you sir be interested in buying an invisible unicorn from me? I will sell it for only $100.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#142

Post by me_me_me »

adventured wrote: post #41
aminecodes wrote: post #17

The least the EU and US could do is sanction and ban Baidu and other Chinese tech companies responsible for covering up this genocide.

It would have very little effect, which is why it's not a primary threat now. Despite China's aims, their tech giants have made little headway in pushing their core businesses far outside of China. Huawei is the primary success story in that regard (the US has obviously been aggressively targeting them across the board). Baidu was supposed to conquer the world and defeat Google, it failed miserably and is largely jus…

> 1) Cut them off on technology

Google Rare Earth metals producers [0]

Do you really want to enter who will starve first competition?

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268011/top-countries-in-...

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#143

Post by yters »

throwaway4good wrote: post #42
yters wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for sake of argument it is propaganda, why does that mean it is false?

It means it is not independent journalism.

is any journalism independent?

and why does independence matter if the reporting is true?

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#144

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

augustt wrote: post #53
gowld wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> the Uighurs in China aren't treated worse than blacks in USA I'm gonna stop you there. At the very least you can speak up in the USA without getting disappeared.

USA needs more show, shock and awe. Thus drones instead.

Then the question remains what happens if you get a NSL, and ignore it. Or why Snowden fled. And why Assange is wanted. Manning. Reality wins!

Ah yes, the prison population thing...hmmm...

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#146

Post by FooBarWidget »

Hizonner wrote: post #126
FooBarWidget wrote: post #68

There are various levels of reporting in about what's happening in Xinjiang. I'm curious which ones of the following people here on HN believe are true. A. There is forced re-education, forced de-radicalization, and forced political assimilation (to fight separatism). Some camps are indeed for voluntary vocational education, others are for forced re-education. The number of people who are forced into camps, are a lot…

Too simplistic. Based on the generally available reports, and based on prior probabilities given the way this stuff has tended to work all over the world, I tentatively believe something close to this: There is forced re-education, forced de-radicalization, and forced political (and cultural) assimilation. One major motivation is probably to fight a (largely illusory) danger of widespread separatist violence. In fact…

Thank you, this sort of thoughtful opinion is what I’m looking for.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#147

Post by jessaustin »

Lio wrote: post #65
gus_massa wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "made in democracy" Many countries have a fake democracy cover. Even Hitler won an election with like the 99% of the votes (I wonder if the other 1% survived for too long.) Also, does this label apply to the United Kingdom or Canada?

> Also, does this label apply to the United Kingdom or Canada? Why would it not? It's not like the head of state wields power in a parliamentary democracy. We cut the head off the last monarch to try that 1649, more than 100 years before either the French or US revolutions.

Gough Whitlam would not agree.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#148

Post by FooBarWidget »

James_Henry wrote: post #138
FooBarWidget wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re false dilemma: You mean I got downvoted for not providing an option "E: other, please describe"? And just by lacking such an option, it comes over as bad faith? That seems rather excessive and cynical. Why is it so hard for people to just post a comment describing their opinion, rather than hitting downvote?

That's my guess. Also, I think there are some jumps in the severity of things in your examples that probably come off as bad faith. Your list is not quite as bad as A. Just helping the Uighurs, but maybe not in the best way. B. Just killing all the Uighurs. But I think a lot of people have issue with your list not considering the fact that there may be something between full killing/genocide and only some of them bei…

I don’t think your comment is rude. It makes sense, even if I don’t agree with people who think the way you describe it. I made a best effort to describe the various possibilities that I think exist.

I just think that it’s silly when so many people condemn China for being unfree, yet at the same time throw away their free society values of encouraging discussions and respecting each others’ opinions, when it comes to discussing China topics.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#149

Post by mschuster91 »

adventured wrote: post #135
mschuster91 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however. The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China - either as a source of cheap products or, and that is an increasingly successful threat, for money. China has been buying up, building or financing construction works especially in South Europe (Italy, Greece, Cr…

> The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China No question. On point 2, it wouldn't significantly harm China by any means. The point would be to humiliate their power aspirations, as China has an intense desire to be respected as a global superpower, to be viewed as a peer with great powers, and so on. It's nothing more than an attempt at influencing China, to exclude them from the global…

> they know their rule by force is illegitimate, so they seek outside sources - typically more democratic sources - to legitimize them

China, however, unlike the USSR and Yugoslavia, has the unique advantage of a population so brainwashed that even Chinese students in foreign countries experiencing the benefits of democratic countries are feared for their loyalty to the CCP. Add to that the Great Firewall / their trend of a "Chinternet" aka Walled Garden for their citizens where the CCP controls the narrative and the informations, plus the strategy of allowing local small scale protests against corrupt public officials so that people vent... China doesn't need anyone's validation, they are too big. Unfortunately. The Western countries should have nipped that shit in the bud instead of selling out human rights for cheap crap.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#150

Post by [deleted] »

mike_h wrote: post #98
ardy42 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's definitionally a propaganda arm of the government. If you think that we're the good guys, then they're the good guys, but they're still propaganda. If it's propaganda, it's propaganda for western-style journalism and liberal values. The question shouldn't be "is it state sponsored or not;" it should be "is its reporting reliable or not." On that question, RFA's reporting on this topic has gotten the endorsemen…

I wouldn’t consider NYT approval a great validation metric. Their reporting on Xinjiang in particular really made it sound to me like someone has an axe to grind and they know they’re preaching to a choir over here. There was one massive “Xinjiang expose” they published a couple years ago that hung on allegations by a few individuals who the reporters claimed were putting their lives at risk by talking, but who the r…

[deleted]
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