Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
1–10 of 34 posts
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#2A quote:
> 69 days to save the earth: ... hovering over all of these is whether the US will play its role in helping take collective responsibility for the future of the planet.
Looks like a scenario for a movie with Bruce Willis.
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#3But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many.
High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#4But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?
The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either:
a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans)
b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low
c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do
You're basically proposing 3, which is asking poor people to voluntarily not have kids so one day they can have what you already have by accident of birth
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#5But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?
Overpopulation is not an issue.
In practice, the most effective route to limiting population growth has been shown to be making people rich.
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#6But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?
The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either: a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans) b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do You're b…
I'm an American and had a vasectomy and one of the bigger reasons was that I don't want have kids that continue to contribute to the destruction of our planet by just being regular Americans. I felt like it was the biggest single contribution I could make for environmentalism.
I also ride an electric bike, live in the PNW where I use barely any heat or AC, limit meat and dairy intake, and generally just don't buy stuff unless really needed.
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#7But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?
The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either: a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans) b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do You're b…
Option d) technology and good government policies enables a low/no carbon future.
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#8But although population growth in low-impact poorer nations has a small impact today, those peoples will one day (hopefully) be wealthy and high-impact, and at that point we’ll surely wish there weren’t so many. High-impact wealthy people definitely need to ratchet down their consumption, but why can we not also address overpopulation at the same time?
Overpopulation is not an issue. In practice, the most effective route to limiting population growth has been shown to be making people rich.
+1
As societies become more wealthy fertility rate tends to drop below replacement levels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility
Quote: "The higher the degree of education and GDP per capita of a human population, subpopulation or social stratum, the fewer children are born in any industrialized country"
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either: a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans) b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do You're b…
I'm an American and had a vasectomy and one of the bigger reasons was that I don't want have kids that continue to contribute to the destruction of our planet by just being regular Americans. I felt like it was the biggest single contribution I could make for environmentalism. I also ride an electric bike, live in the PNW where I use barely any heat or AC, limit meat and dairy intake, and generally just don't buy stu…
> I don't want have kids that continue to contribute to the destruction of our planet by just being regular Americans.
... so that the planet is preserved for the descendants of less environmentally responsible human beings?
Re: Population panic lets rich people off the hook for the climate crisis
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point is that there's no future where everyone consumes as much as today's average American. You either: a) reduce the consumption of the globally wealthy (this includes most Americans) b) keep the globally impoverished poor to keep their consumption low c) add in some eugenics and stop the poor people from having more kids with the promise that one day you'll let them consume the same way you already do You're b…
I'm an American and had a vasectomy and one of the bigger reasons was that I don't want have kids that continue to contribute to the destruction of our planet by just being regular Americans. I felt like it was the biggest single contribution I could make for environmentalism. I also ride an electric bike, live in the PNW where I use barely any heat or AC, limit meat and dairy intake, and generally just don't buy stu…
And here is where environmentalism becomes anti-human, and frankly cult like.
Nothing against vasectomies, I’ll probably get one once I have a few kids. But putting the environment before the propagation of our species is unique to us, and I think a sinister thought pattern. Oh well, if enough extreme environmentalists share the same thought, then there will be no more extreme environmentalists.
I’m all for doing our part to reduce greenhouse gases, and pollution. But not at the expense of human life.
First it’s “To save the planet, I won’t have kids”. Next is, “To save the planet, you shouldn’t have kids”
Regardless if you have children or not, the chilling sentiment still exists. My fear is when, inevitably, there is social pressure, if not force, to adhere to similar doctrines on a larger scale.