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Scrollbar Blindness

svenkadak.com

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Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#41

Post by Tagbert »

dusted wrote: post #14
dgellow wrote: post #12

Another one of such thing: please try to scroll on your site using a mouse wheel from time to time, even if you're normally using a touchpad (from your laptop or an external one)! Lot of fancy homepage with scroll animations are awful on anything that isn't scrolling as smoothly as a MacBookPro touchpad. Example: https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/ is horrible to use on anything that isn't a mobile device or a Mac.

yes, that's pretty terrible, I always scroll with the mouse wheel, since I'm tool old to be rubbing a plate of glass and not feel like a moron. But this one, made my finger hurt a bit and I din't even make it half way down.

You can also tap the space bar to scroll a screen at a time

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#42

Post by asadkn »

smu3l wrote: post #36
phpdave11 wrote: post #5

I like how the title of the article has a hidden scroll bar (reading on iPhone).

Indeed. I just set scrollbars to always show on my Macbook per the author's suggestion and there are 4 scrollbars on their page! Makes me wonder if I'm missing the point of the fairly simple post?

That's clearly intentional to make the point. Made me appreciate the article more.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#43

Post by spideymans »

dgellow wrote: post #12

Another one of such thing: please try to scroll on your site using a mouse wheel from time to time, even if you're normally using a touchpad (from your laptop or an external one)! Lot of fancy homepage with scroll animations are awful on anything that isn't scrolling as smoothly as a MacBookPro touchpad. Example: https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/ is horrible to use on anything that isn't a mobile device or a Mac.

This highlights the bigger issue of web developers and designers only working on the latest and greatest hardware with the fastest performance and the best user experience. Their users may not have access to the same hardware, while developers and designers are totally blind to how their software might perform on anything but a recent model MacBook Pro or XPS.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#44

Post by vladvasiliu »

bb123 wrote: post #23
untog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't even understand why they would remove them? Who ever complained of a scroll bar? IMO it's all part of this push to combine mobile and desktop UI. On mobile there is a legitimate case to be made for removing them because screen real estate is so precious. But desktop gets clobbered as an unwanted side effect.

I actually think it has more to do with the increasing size and sophistication of the touchpad in Macs. There is no need for a scroll bar when you have a touchpad you can flick (likewise for magic mice).

I don't know, not everybody has a macbook or a magic mouse. Plus even old, small, unprecise PC touchpads were enough to scroll a website.

To me, it looks more related to the recent fashion of "minimal" interfaces. Like material design and ultra-skinny fonts. Could also be related to the "infinite scroll" some sites have. A scroll bar doesn't make much sense for those.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#45

Post by pilsetnieks »

abledon wrote: post #26
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #11

I loathe the fact that scrollbars are now hidden. I'm constantly looking for it to either a) find out how big the page is b) scroll more precisely I don't even understand why they would remove them? Who ever complained of a scroll bar?

I wonder if the designers of the systems , after becoming so bored with the status quo, begin to fetishize the sleek hidden thing that is scroll bar right now ... like when coders are writing algorithms for say, 10-15 years I bet their code gets a lot more compact and sleek looking , almost akin to tight 3 character variable leet code solutions etc.. maybe this is just the same phenomenon tearing its head in the desi…

> like when coders are writing algorithms for say, 10-15 years I bet their code gets a lot more compact and sleek looking , almost akin to tight 3 character variable leet code solutions

I have never seen that to be the case unless in an environment with very heavy constraints like embedded. If anything, a competent programmer 10-15 years in would skew towards more descriptive and clear variable naming as they've been burned in the past by having to maintain some of that "leet" code.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#46

Post by pantalaimon »

bb123 wrote: post #23
untog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't even understand why they would remove them? Who ever complained of a scroll bar? IMO it's all part of this push to combine mobile and desktop UI. On mobile there is a legitimate case to be made for removing them because screen real estate is so precious. But desktop gets clobbered as an unwanted side effect.

I actually think it has more to do with the increasing size and sophistication of the touchpad in Macs. There is no need for a scroll bar when you have a touchpad you can flick (likewise for magic mice).

But the touchpad won't help you visualize where on the page you are.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#47

Post by bitwize »

abledon wrote: post #26
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #11

I loathe the fact that scrollbars are now hidden. I'm constantly looking for it to either a) find out how big the page is b) scroll more precisely I don't even understand why they would remove them? Who ever complained of a scroll bar?

I wonder if the designers of the systems , after becoming so bored with the status quo, begin to fetishize the sleek hidden thing that is scroll bar right now ... like when coders are writing algorithms for say, 10-15 years I bet their code gets a lot more compact and sleek looking , almost akin to tight 3 character variable leet code solutions etc.. maybe this is just the same phenomenon tearing its head in the desi…

> coders are writing algorithms for say, 10-15 years I bet their code gets a lot more compact and sleek looking , almost akin to tight 3 character variable leet code solutions etc..

What are you talking about? I've been programming a long time, and clean, readable code with clear, descriptive variable names gives me a stiffy. It suggests a more meticulous mind than mine wrote it.

You know who writes the worst Gordian-knot code? Engineers from other disciplines who learned programming as a means to do other engineering calculation. Smart guys, but it's a pain keeping track of what i1, i2, i3, and i4 mean, or their 1970s FORTRAN program flow.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#48

Post by formerly_proven »

spideymans wrote: post #38
bb123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think it has more to do with the increasing size and sophistication of the touchpad in Macs. There is no need for a scroll bar when you have a touchpad you can flick (likewise for magic mice).

Yea on macOS, the scroll bar is less of a scroll bar, and more of a scroll indicator. There just isn’t any reason to click on the scroll bar if you have a trackpad. Notably, when you connect a traditional mouse, the scroll bar automatically becomes thicker (easier to click) and always visible, as mice users do have a reason to click/drag the scroll bar. Seems like Apple had this in mind

> Yea on macOS, the scroll bar is less of a scroll bar, and more of a scroll indicator. There just isn’t any reason to click on the scroll bar if you have a trackpad.

I've seen so many web pages whose "fold line" just aligned so neatly with the end of my viewport that without the scrollbar being visible I would've just closed the page, being disappointed that it's just a meaningless hero page with no content.

Similarly, if stuff like selection boxes align just right, you simply can't see there are more options without a scrollbar. It just looks like you only have those options that are on the screen right now.

It's just plain bad UX coming from Apple.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#49

Post by hundchenkatze »

abledon wrote: post #26
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #11

I loathe the fact that scrollbars are now hidden. I'm constantly looking for it to either a) find out how big the page is b) scroll more precisely I don't even understand why they would remove them? Who ever complained of a scroll bar?

I wonder if the designers of the systems , after becoming so bored with the status quo, begin to fetishize the sleek hidden thing that is scroll bar right now ... like when coders are writing algorithms for say, 10-15 years I bet their code gets a lot more compact and sleek looking , almost akin to tight 3 character variable leet code solutions etc.. maybe this is just the same phenomenon tearing its head in the desi…

> but loses sight of what is lost.

Literally in this case :)

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#50

Post by matsemann »

kwanbix wrote: post #16
dgellow wrote: post #12

Another one of such thing: please try to scroll on your site using a mouse wheel from time to time, even if you're normally using a touchpad (from your laptop or an external one)! Lot of fancy homepage with scroll animations are awful on anything that isn't scrolling as smoothly as a MacBookPro touchpad. Example: https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/ is horrible to use on anything that isn't a mobile device or a Mac.

Your example works just fine on my ThinkPad P50. Unless I am missing something.

Works fine on my ThinkPad in Firefox as well. But if I try to scroll with my normal mouse, it doesn't scroll smooth but a set amount per "click" of the scroll wheel. So it looks really laggy.
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