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Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

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Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#41

The least the EU and US could do is sanction and ban Baidu and other Chinese tech companies responsible for covering up this genocide.

It would have very little effect, which is why it's not a primary threat now. Despite China's aims, their tech giants have made little headway in pushing their core businesses far outside of China. Huawei is the primary success story in that regard (the US has obviously been aggressively targeting them across the board). Baidu was supposed to conquer the world and defeat Google, it failed miserably and is largely just a China search engine today, nearly all of their revenue comes from China, so sanctions wouldn't do much. China's tech giants are, for the most part, captives within China. ByteDance did manage to build a global phenomenon in TikTok, however that too is now under threat of being turned back.

Sanctions on most parts of China's system will have little effect, similar to how China's retaliatory sanctions on US Senators are largely meaningless.

There are three primary ways to hurt China. 1) Cut them off on technology (eg semiconductors), which is an angle the US is using to an extent. There is some question over how long China will tolerate that before they just start ignoring international rules/laws/norms and start openly steal-cloning the tech they want (I'd bet they won't tolerate it for very long). 2) Humiliate them politically, through isolation & exclusion; cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however. 3) Target their export machine & dollar dependency, cut them off financially from the global economy (USD, Euro and Yen combined entirely dominate the global economy, along with the connected banking & financial systems); this will work for a while, however China is aware of the weak spots and is very aggressively working to build out their domestic service economy to lessen the importance of their exports to their economy, and they're always looking to lessen their dollar dependency.

All that said, China is well beyond the point where you can really restrict them in the sense that you can most nations (like Iran or Venezuela). They've accumulated enough capability, tech, wealth, productivity, infrastructure, domestic know-how, etc. that they are fully free standing now. They have $60 trillion or so in domestic wealth. They have the world's #2 military. They have the world's largest manufacturing engine, and can increasingly manufacture at or near the highest tiers (eg jet engines & planes, semiconductors, etc). They have very few real weak points that can threaten them in a serious sense. The last time it was possible to squeeze China was before the great recession, when their economy was still far smaller than the US & EU, and back then it was hoped that wouldn't be necessary.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#42
post #34

"Alison Killing conducted this reporting with a grant and further assistance from the Open Technology Fund." From wikipedia: "As of November 2019, the Open Technology Fund became an independent nonprofit corporation and a grantee of the U.S. Agency for Global Media.[7] Until its formation as an independent entity, it had operated as a program of Radio Free Asia." Radio Free Asia ... founded by the CIA and a today wel…

Even for sake of argument it is propaganda, why does that mean it is false?

It means it is not independent journalism.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#43
post #3

There are blank spots on western maps too, I can think of at least one [1] that isn't in Google maps. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviano_Air_Base

So? The issue isn't satellite/aerial imagery being censored, it's that it's being censored to cover up unsavory things. The equivalent in the US would be ICE/CBP detention camps being covered up on maps, but it doesn't look like that's happening: https://www.ice.gov/detention-facilities

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disproportionately purchase items made in your own country. Encourage others to do the same. Vote for government officials who encourage similar policies, write to government official who do not. Start/join action groups, engage in political debate at all levels. Start / invest in a local manufacturing company, run for local office, run for president, get rich and invest in local brands.

These are excellent suggestions. I've been wishing for some kind of "made in democracy" stamp, or a "produced humanly" if that would also shut out other more moderate manufacturing centres, similar to fair trade chocolate. https://www.fairtradeamerica.org/shop-fairtrade/fairtrade-pr...

This doesn’t quite answer all of your needs, but you can find quite a lot of goods through

Ten Thousand Villages

Or through

The fair trade federation and their list of suppliers.

Disclosure: I work for a non profit tied to Ten Thousand Villages and I also sit on the board of a fair trade organization.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#46

How as a consumer do I avoid the moral dread of buying made in China when 99% of everything is made in China.

It will get easier - there has been a significant shift of manufacturing away from China to other countries, primarily India.

That is the case for tech and some of the more crucial imports - cheap less important items will probably always be manufactured in China in high volume though.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#49
post #8

Speaking of maps, I've always wondered what's in that huge, mostly-unlabeled region that is more than half of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Russia It looks like it could comfortably fit a few countries and then some. Even when watching history documentaries there's a period where Russia is basically a thin strip at the western edge of its current territory, before suddenly and inexplicably blowin…

Horseflies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik1Y88n1Uog [1] does give the impression of the sort of place where one wishes to avoid the snowmelt line in spring. And that's down in the populated region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Siberian_Highway says it was first fully paved in 2015. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfbbd-8hbWM

Also in the populated part, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family detached from their society and went foraging in the wild, but lost most of their tech tree in doing so.

A former soviet colleague told me during perestroika that they planned their taiga field work for winter, because dealing with snow was much easier than dealing with mud.

[1] This clip has "women, horses, and wide open spaces." For "steam-baths, vodka, accordion, and lox" you'll have to do your own searching.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#50

How as a consumer do I avoid the moral dread of buying made in China when 99% of everything is made in China.

Coordination problems of this size are most effectively solved with government sized units.

Become politically active (not just in the internet).

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