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Japan facing credit card number shortage

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Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#351

Post by Tijdreiziger »

majewsky wrote: post #348
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opinion that the EU should work to make all these national payment systems cross-compatible. They've already done it for regular money transfers (SEPA). They've already done it for government identification (eIDAS). Now it's time to put an end to the national insularity of online payment systems (NL: iDEAL, BE: Bancontact, DE: SOFORT, SE: Swish, PL: Przelewy24, ...)

Honest question: What's the point of even having these online payment systems when there is SEPA? When I pay by credit card, they send me through a UI flow where I authenticate with my online banking (from the bank who issued my CC). Why can they not just do the same with SEPA and redirect me to my online banking to have me authorize a SEPA money transfer?

That UI flow doesn't exist for SEPA transactions, which is exactly why these systems came to be. Some of these systems already existed before SEPA came to be in 2014, which necessarily made them national systems (before 2014, cross-border transactions used to be complicated and cost money, even if both countries used the euro).

IIRC, SOFORT used to just ask you for your banking credentials, and then it would just log in to your online banking and put a regular transfer through.

Amazon.de does a nice job by offering direct debit: you put in your IBAN and they automatically debit your account, which works across SEPA. But this seems very fraud-sensitive (you could put in anyone's IBAN), which is probably why it's not more common.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#352

Post by xlii »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #339
xlii wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In English speaking countries, sure - why not. But it'd take at least 3 generation to use in non-english speaking country since in different languages same letters might be pronounced vastly different. Then you have immigrants and foreigners who might now know this alphabet so clerks would still be able to recognize ad-hoc and NATO alphabet. In the end, it would extend requirements while not providing universal benef…

Brazilian here. There is an equivalent alphabet in Portuguese, with different words for each letter, better adapted to the Portuguese language. It's ubiquitous in the Brazilian armed services. Phone service is always in a specific language, I don't see why the use of such alphabets would be harder in non-English-speaking countries than in English-speaking ones.

Not every country even uses Latin alphabet. That’s for one. And you wrote “such alphabets” whereas OP specifically named NATO one. If each country would have their own implementation it would be even more effort consuming and wouldn’t solve anything beyond what we already have.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#353

Post by nikanj »

henearkr wrote: post #312
nikanj wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five cards per person is less than a billion cards, vs a quadrillion possible combinations of 15 digits. A drop in the bucket

You forgot that these 16 digits have a structure, with the 4 or even 8 first ones being determined by the type (visa, mastercard) and the bank/country, etc.

That's a made-up problem, and the right solution is not adding more digits to the cards.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#354

Post by emiliobumachar »

xlii wrote: post #352
emiliobumachar wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazilian here. There is an equivalent alphabet in Portuguese, with different words for each letter, better adapted to the Portuguese language. It's ubiquitous in the Brazilian armed services. Phone service is always in a specific language, I don't see why the use of such alphabets would be harder in non-English-speaking countries than in English-speaking ones.

Not every country even uses Latin alphabet. That’s for one. And you wrote “such alphabets” whereas OP specifically named NATO one. If each country would have their own implementation it would be even more effort consuming and wouldn’t solve anything beyond what we already have.

"each country would have their own implementation" would not mean anyone has to serve all countries. Services only available in English today would only need to learn the NATO alphabet to remain fully available in English.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#355

Post by iso1210 »

dwild wrote: post #333
iso1210 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's far better ways to do it if you can use online - I submit my card number to them, they pass the card number, their account number, and the amount to my provider, I authorise they payment with my provider. If you're doing it over the phone though things like public key won't really work - to be long enough would make the numbers impossible to read out reliably, let alone the calculation I would need to do with…

> There's far better ways to do it if you can use online - I submit my card number to them, they pass the card number, their account number, and the amount to my provider, I authorise they payment with my provider. Visa does support this scheme and I hate it when it happens. I try to use my bank password the less possible. I also believe it's a huge phishing risk as people don't look at the URL. I personally prefer t…

Implementation is terrible, concept is fine

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#356

Post by JoeAltmaier »

chrisseaton wrote: post #72
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless somebody wrote an app, or the store cooperated like PayPal, or 100 other things. Lets try to imagine a better future?

Don't you already get this with Verified by Visa and MasterCard SecureCode? You don't need new credit card numbers to do this. But merchants don't implement it... because it's an extra step and consumers don't like it. The very last thing a merchant wants to do is put an extra step in front of someone just about to buy.

Exactly. That's why, a new number for every transaction. No merchant requirement.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#357

Post by chrisseaton »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #356
chrisseaton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you already get this with Verified by Visa and MasterCard SecureCode? You don't need new credit card numbers to do this. But merchants don't implement it... because it's an extra step and consumers don't like it. The very last thing a merchant wants to do is put an extra step in front of someone just about to buy.

Exactly. That's why, a new number for every transaction. No merchant requirement.

I don't understand how you think you can get a new number for each transaction without any extra step getting in the way? How does your card issuer know you want a new number and how much to set the limit?

Do you go to an app? That's a separate step. Consumers demonstrably don't want extra steps.

Do you integrate it with the merchant and do it automatically? Then it's no safer as there's no authorisation.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#358

Post by strbean »

cdongrun wrote: post #145
strbean wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now all of the burden is on the credit card companies. Any fraud is their liability. Tell that to retailers who lose a gazillion dollars to fraud reversals every year.

then those merchants should use the widely popular 3d secure system, which lets you enter a pin. by using it, they are protected from reversals by the terms of service. so a system that prevents them losing a gazillion dollars is available, and they opt to instead lose the gazillion dollars. it's their fault, and they should lose that money. we don't need to tell them anything -we just need to point and laugh.

See quelltext's response. Or, have your customers ditch you for the convenience of Target/Walmart/etc. who can afford to eat the losses rather than make the checkout process more painful.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#359

Post by coeneedell »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #318
coeneedell wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cough cough glares at US federal and state agencies.

I did federal contracting for years and never saw a single one. They all digital now homie, gov cloud all up in that bitch. State orgs wouldn't surprise me in the least tho.

Okay fair, now that you mention it I think the last time I had to deal with it it was actually Montana State DOJ and not federal DOJ.

Re: Japan facing credit card number shortage

#360

Post by wangsijie »

joshfraser wrote: post #96

What's crazy is that we've had public key encryption for over 40 years, and we're still publishing magic numbers on little pieces of plastic that give whoever sees them the power to take all our money without our consent.

In China, we pay by barcode\QRCode.
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