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Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#261

Post by bambax »

cs702 wrote: post #8

As a user of software, I couldn't agree more with the OP that automatic updates: > should always keep the user centric > should be incremental and security or bug fixes only > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default > should never be used to install telemetry or spyware or to re-enable it if it was previously switched off > should never be used to install other…

To add to the list: automatic updates should install.

Many many times Windows updates download, try to install, and fail with an "unknown reason" and a useless error code. I disabled them for just this reason. It's completely pointless.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#262

Post by xg15 »

> They are abused to the point where many users - me included - would rather forego all updates (let alone automatic ones) simply because we apparently can not trust the party on the other side of this transaction to have our, the users, interests at heart.

I would say this is putting it lightly. We're at a point where the ability to produce updates for a popular software is an asset that is traded on markets. A popular life-cycle for apps or browser extensions is basically:

- Some person makes an app or extension that is genuinely useful and available for free (often with the best intentions).

- At some point the developer cannot maintain the software anymore: They have lost interest or don't have enough time available, etc.

- Some company offers to buy the software and take over maintenance duties.

- As soon as the company owns the keys, they will push an update that includes ads/trackers/malware/etc into the formerly useful app, instantly compromising the machines iof the app's whole userbase.

- After some time, the community might notice and gradually the app will be communicated as harmful. The community mourns the loss of a useful program and users will move on until the cycle repeats...

> So, software vendors, automatic updates:

- should always keep the user centric

[... should do this, should not do that...]

This list is well-intentioned but I feel ultimately fruitless. Yes, updates should be centered around the interests of the users, but as the articel itself states, companies don't have the interests of their users in mind when pushing updates.

So I don't see a lot of incentive to follow that list, honestly.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#263

Post by mekpro »

shawnz wrote: post #205
fiblye wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years ago, I found some software updates annoying. 5 years ago, I found most of them aggravating. Now, I find them to be outright harmful except for rare cases. It's very common for (particularly mobile software) to just break the product entirely. Features I regularly used and depended on--sometimes even the main features--are just deleted. Gone, with zero chance of using it again. Sometimes ads are thrown in, ad…

Can you give me an example of the last time you faced a harmful, work-destroying update? Because that hasn't occurred to me in any product for years, and I always install manufacturer updates the day they are released.

Windows 10 update frequently shipped with broken side-effect, sometime its WSL, sometime Docker, so on. My last strow is the last month update which made Starcraft II broken.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#264

Post by augustk »

jiggawatts wrote: post #252

Don't forget: "Never slow down the user interface". I have a 4K Sony television that was their flagship model when it was new, but a couple of years ago they "updated" it with a new version of its OS that looks identical but is incredibly sluggish. Not technically broken, but frustrating to use. Moving around between menu items is a good 2-3 seconds, up to 10 in some cases. There is literally nothing I can do about t…

  IF newTV THEN
     delay := 0
  ELSE
     (*make customer by new TV*)
     delay := 10
  END

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#265

Post by xg15 »

rightbyte wrote: post #258
jiggawatts wrote: post #252

Don't forget: "Never slow down the user interface". I have a 4K Sony television that was their flagship model when it was new, but a couple of years ago they "updated" it with a new version of its OS that looks identical but is incredibly sluggish. Not technically broken, but frustrating to use. Moving around between menu items is a good 2-3 seconds, up to 10 in some cases. There is literally nothing I can do about t…

Can you downgrade the firmware? I feel like I am at the whim of anti social behavior and conspiracies at some anonymous office with auto updates enabled. The Scrum Agile morning standups at Toaster Corp. could just as well be in my kitchen pushing user hostile features for "business reasons" or enforcing ideologically pure ways to use their toaster.

Latest-generation devices contain hardware fuses purposely designed to make prevent downgrading. I think that tells you all you need to know about the position the industry has towards downgrades and whether updates are in the interest of the user or not.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#266

Post by aib »

I do software development in bursts (think productive weekdays + long weekends) and do all my updates in the downtimes. One day Snap decided to update Slack right before an important meeting. To a, yes, broken version.

Another angle to this is that had Slack not been a proprietary platform, I would've taken time to find or help develop a sane client that is -e-a-s-y- possible to fix.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#267

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #252

Don't forget: "Never slow down the user interface". I have a 4K Sony television that was their flagship model when it was new, but a couple of years ago they "updated" it with a new version of its OS that looks identical but is incredibly sluggish. Not technically broken, but frustrating to use. Moving around between menu items is a good 2-3 seconds, up to 10 in some cases. There is literally nothing I can do about t…

If you're in the EU you should have a right to send it back.

Failing that, if you have a blog, publicise that so others get put off buying that brand. Complain to them (edit: sony) directly also. Don't just sit there are take it, it's what they're relying on.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#268

Post by saagarjha »

augustk wrote: post #264
jiggawatts wrote: post #252

Don't forget: "Never slow down the user interface". I have a 4K Sony television that was their flagship model when it was new, but a couple of years ago they "updated" it with a new version of its OS that looks identical but is incredibly sluggish. Not technically broken, but frustrating to use. Moving around between menu items is a good 2-3 seconds, up to 10 in some cases. There is literally nothing I can do about t…

IF newTV THEN delay := 0 ELSE (*make customer by new TV*) delay := 10 END

Guess what? The new TV uses that software too, so it’s about as slow.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#269

Post by pmontra »

jiggawatts wrote: post #252

Don't forget: "Never slow down the user interface". I have a 4K Sony television that was their flagship model when it was new, but a couple of years ago they "updated" it with a new version of its OS that looks identical but is incredibly sluggish. Not technically broken, but frustrating to use. Moving around between menu items is a good 2-3 seconds, up to 10 in some cases. There is literally nothing I can do about t…

I own a LG smart TV. Wary of those and other problems I never connected it to the net. I bought it because it cost only 50 Euros more than the dumb model and the display looked much better, which should be the main point of a TV.

If I really want to do smart things with my TV I attach something I control to one of its HDMI ports (phone, tablet, laptop, Raspberry.)

I'm not thrilled about the idea of TV sets with an embedded 5G SIM that I can't disable. Worse if they'll only work if online.

Edit: example of 5G and TV https://5g.co.uk/guides/5g-tv/

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#270

Post by pmontra »

saagarjha wrote: post #268
augustk wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IF newTV THEN delay := 0 ELSE (*make customer by new TV*) delay := 10 END

Guess what? The new TV uses that software too, so it’s about as slow.

Maybe it's got a faster CPU/GPU. Saw that happen with computers and then phones for some 40 years.
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