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Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#211

Post by rlayton2 »

badsectoracula wrote: post #173
stubish wrote: post #141

Taring everything with the same brush. There was a time, not so long ago, when it was impossible to install Windows over the Internet because so many other machines were compromised and your machine would, with certainty, also end up compromised before it had gotten as far as applying the latest service pack. Then we got automatic updates, and we all breathed a sigh of relief because things got better . We had empiri…

People use computers to do things. When automated updates make it harder for them to do the things they want to do, especially out of no action on their own, they are going to dislike the automatic updates. And when trying to avoid the automated updates - which is what they see as the source of making it harder to do the things they want to do - is met with automated updates being forced even harder on them, they're…

Your first sentence hits the nail on the spot.

For instance, I open up the Prusa slicer software (for 3d printing) and it says there is an update. I didn't open the software to update it, so I always click no - I opened this because I need to 3D print something, and I don't know what the time commitment of updating the software is.

I'll go update it now that I am thinking about it, but this is a general pattern.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#212

Post by HenryBemis »

causality0 wrote: post #139
orev wrote: post #106

I had been using a great app that’s been around since before the iPhone came out (PocketMoney on Palm). They rewrote it for IOS, and it was able to import the database from the Palm version. Really great. Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update”…

Not even that is risk-free. I was doxxed by a developer after Google's idiotic real-name policy put me in his crosshairs for my one-star review.

Tip/suggestion: Make a separate Google account with fake name/suername for reviews on Google.

I have a few Google accounts. Only one is my actual name. Especially for games and reviews I use an aliased account (just like I use an alias here). Google can still track me I guess (IP) but a single dev will never find who UnrealName UnrealSurname is. And I do tend to leave brutally honest and detailed feedbacks whether positive or negative.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#213

Post by omnifischer »

Legogris wrote: post #200
imhoguy wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully almost anyone can side-load APK with older version - unless a developer blocks the API. But agreed it is a mess. That is why I think auto-updating mobile devices or "the cloud" will never fully replace computers with a local software for a serious work.

My gripe here is with system updates, not apps from the Play Store.

I for one stopped updating after nougat. At least you can flash safe lineageos . Search for TWRP/backup. Even you can clone phone to identical model.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#214

Post by moring »

jacquesm wrote: post #181
darkwater wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that I will sound condescending but... that's exactly why people "invented" opensource (and/or free software if you prefer). I'm sorry for your problem nonetheless.

App stores and SaaS do an end run around open source.

Isn't that a false dichotomy? The package repos from Linux distros are basically open-source app stores (in the full sense, only those that support payment are).

With regards to SaaS, nothing prevents open source SaaS software that can be set up for multiple small to middle-sized-user bases. One could argue that things like phpBB is exactly that. They might even connect to each other to form a larger network... I'm still hoping for a major breakthrough in this area.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#215

Post by chmod775 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #197
ekianjo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update” that was actually a totally different software via the automatic update process. Everyone’s financial data got locked up in this new version that is almost useless. ~20 years of financial tracking just g…

Is there an open format for bookkeeping data? I suppose you have ledger-cli but that's hardly useful for normal people.

CSV file(s)? It's not like the underlying data is in any way complicated. A lot of software can export and import these.

Those that can't export to CSV have usually another way of getting that data into a spreadsheet application, from where you can export it as CSV...

And yes I know CSV technically sucks (varying encoding, lax standards, etc.), but it's the lowest common denominator for a lot of software.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#216

Post by Joeri »

orev wrote: post #106

I had been using a great app that’s been around since before the iPhone came out (PocketMoney on Palm). They rewrote it for IOS, and it was able to import the database from the Palm version. Really great. Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update”…

There are very convoluted ways to backup and restore apps and data on iOS, even to go back to an older version of an app, but they require a lot of fiddling (literally, with fiddler), and if the app has changed its data format you need to have a backup of the old data in a format that can be restored. It would be nice if apple added time machine to iOS and iPadOS and let you restore any previous version of an app and its data.

This example demonstrates that the walled garden is not as safe as people think it is. Granted, reviewing every update in detail is a monumental task. Then again, this is why apple takes the 30%. I don't believe apple can catch all bad updates before they get sent out. An easy ability to revert to an older version of an app and its data would be very useful. Given how an iCloud-powered time machine for iOS would slurp up iCloud storage and push people to higher paid tiers I'm amazed they haven't done it before.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#217

Post by mschuster91 »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #11
cs702 wrote: post #8

As a user of software, I couldn't agree more with the OP that automatic updates: > should always keep the user centric > should be incremental and security or bug fixes only > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default > should never be used to install telemetry or spyware or to re-enable it if it was previously switched off > should never be used to install other…

> Should not use features like "e-fuses" to make irreversible modifications to my hardware I am very reticent to update some embedded devices because not only to I risk losing functionality, losing my preferred UI, etc, but the update may also make irreversible changes to my hardware. Even if I am able to wrest control away from the manufacturer (e.g. "jailbreak" the device) I may not be able to revert to a prior ver…

> Even if I am able to wrest control away from the manufacturer (e.g. "jailbreak" the device) I may not be able to revert to a prior version because the hardware identifies itself as being physically unable to run the old software.

coughs in Nintendo Switch

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#218

Post by omnifischer »

dt3ft wrote: post #184
viraptor wrote: post #54

I like the main idea here, but the points listed are a bit extreme. Specifically this one: > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default Are you ready to pay for the ongoing support of all legacy interfaces, including the ones you're not using and which are possibly not used by anyone in the world (no telemetry)? Are you ready for all the bugs and security issues t…

It took a while to find a comment that points out the cost of maintaining legacy UI. It is highly likely that no customer is willing to pay for support of legacy anything, let alone UI. "Jonny" sounds like the kind of person that wants to purchase software at a one-time cost, and then expect free lifetime upgrades (which include all the outrageous demands such as supporting legacy UI). Make your own software Jonny, s…

> maintaining legacy UI.

Do you mean like the legacy UI for older MS office (2010 may be) replaced by ribbon. I recently read that next office versions are going back to non-ribbon interface.

> "Jonny" sounds like the kind of person that wants to purchase software at a one-time cost, and then expect free lifetime upgrades (which include all the outrageous demands such as supporting legacy UI).

Sure. Ideally everyone follows RHEL - the UI stays the same old GTK/GNOME. Only the kernel updates/security can be backported. Do not touch anything else.

(But I mean marketing departments do not have anything new to show then..)

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#219

Post by HenryBemis »

orev wrote: post #106

I had been using a great app that’s been around since before the iPhone came out (PocketMoney on Palm). They rewrote it for IOS, and it was able to import the database from the Palm version. Really great. Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update”…

If it ain't broken, don't fix it... Updates on phones: I had been blessed (?) with having a few iPhones in my life. After getting burned from a crappy update I changed my tactics. I have switched off the "automatic updates". I manually updated on iphone5 and if the update was good I'd proceed to update

When I switched to android I do the same with a phone and a tablet. I only update 'blindly' my e-banking apps. Everything else (e.g. I frequently used CamScanner) does not get updated. Ever

For the PC, I use WFC and I block all apps that don't meet internet connection to work. VLC? Excel? Your use may be different of course. You may need the autonatic translation features of Word. I don't. Outlook only speaks to my email server, not MS. winRAR? Why? V5 is good enough. And so on..

I too have been burned by Devs removing features from the "current" version and pushing them to a paid one, or removing them altogether because of maintenance,shifting them to other products they run, and many many other reasons.

Steve Gibson says: if you didn't go looking for it, so not install it. My XYZ app works just find on its current version. Do I want an update? No thank you.

A tax software could be different though, tax code changes every now and then and you can't escape the updates.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#220

Post by fiblye »

shawnz wrote: post #205
fiblye wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years ago, I found some software updates annoying. 5 years ago, I found most of them aggravating. Now, I find them to be outright harmful except for rare cases. It's very common for (particularly mobile software) to just break the product entirely. Features I regularly used and depended on--sometimes even the main features--are just deleted. Gone, with zero chance of using it again. Sometimes ads are thrown in, ad…

Can you give me an example of the last time you faced a harmful, work-destroying update? Because that hasn't occurred to me in any product for years, and I always install manufacturer updates the day they are released.

There was a recent update to some PLC software that I use daily that integrates with other software for the display device and allows both to execute at once. It recently broke won't allow both pieces of software to run in test/monitoring mode simultaneously without crashing and without saving. This is software meant to be used on actual, moving, industrial hardware.

A few updates have been released this year since that bug, but none have addressed this issue. I've had to be very careful when working on active machinery because it's very easy to accidentally trigger it, and each time comes with the risk of accidentally breaking some very expensive machinery (or injuring people).

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