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Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#181

Post by jacquesm »

darkwater wrote: post #180
orev wrote: post #106

I had been using a great app that’s been around since before the iPhone came out (PocketMoney on Palm). They rewrote it for IOS, and it was able to import the database from the Palm version. Really great. Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update”…

I'm aware that I will sound condescending but... that's exactly why people "invented" opensource (and/or free software if you prefer). I'm sorry for your problem nonetheless.

App stores and SaaS do an end run around open source.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#182

Post by shaan7 »

cringepirate wrote: post #151
tomc1985 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to technology the majority of the population is not capable of looking after themselves. And it won't be this way for a very, very long time.

Well it will go on longer if people are encouraged by those that are capable to stay ignorant. Also Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Well, nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Both you and tomc1985 are correct - it is this weird human thing where most people will continue to do things knowing full well of the consequences. For example we know of N things that cause pollution and global warming, we continue using them anyway.

Maybe there will be a day when the majority of the population will be more conscious of their lifestyle choices (and that technology choices deserve time and effort just like your dietary choices).

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#183

Post by tspiteri »

jacquesm wrote: post #161
stubish wrote: post #141

Taring everything with the same brush. There was a time, not so long ago, when it was impossible to install Windows over the Internet because so many other machines were compromised and your machine would, with certainty, also end up compromised before it had gotten as far as applying the latest service pack. Then we got automatic updates, and we all breathed a sigh of relief because things got better . We had empiri…

There is nothing wrong with automatic security updates, I make that pretty clear in the article and don't understand why you come to the conclusion that I wrote that 'all automatic updates are bad'. The second bullet in the list reads: "should be incremental and security or bug fixes only"

Maybe web browsers are an extreme case, but I think your model would only work for long term releases. It is not reasonable to expect browser vendors to backport all security fixes to all releases so that users on old releases get essential security fixes.

So while I do agree that your model should be the default, I see nothing wrong in allowing people who want to live on the edge to have a release with updates that do affect the interface (I use Fedora not CentOS, and I want the updates).

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#184

Post by dt3ft »

viraptor wrote: post #54

I like the main idea here, but the points listed are a bit extreme. Specifically this one: > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default Are you ready to pay for the ongoing support of all legacy interfaces, including the ones you're not using and which are possibly not used by anyone in the world (no telemetry)? Are you ready for all the bugs and security issues t…

It took a while to find a comment that points out the cost of maintaining legacy UI.

It is highly likely that no customer is willing to pay for support of legacy anything, let alone UI.

"Jonny" sounds like the kind of person that wants to purchase software at a one-time cost, and then expect free lifetime upgrades (which include all the outrageous demands such as supporting legacy UI).

Make your own software Jonny, see how that works out for ya.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#185

Post by ekianjo »

orev wrote: post #106

I had been using a great app that’s been around since before the iPhone came out (PocketMoney on Palm). They rewrote it for IOS, and it was able to import the database from the Palm version. Really great. Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update”…

> Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update” that was actually a totally different software via the automatic update process. Everyone’s financial data got locked up in this new version that is almost useless. ~20 years of financial tracking just gone. To make it worse, they did it in December, just before people would need to pull reports for tax season.

It's usually better to design your (critical) data around formats that can be shared across a multitude of applications than on the bet than a single app will forever exist. Of course, it's a trade-off between convenience and flexibility.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#186

Post by tomc1985 »

cringepirate wrote: post #151
tomc1985 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to technology the majority of the population is not capable of looking after themselves. And it won't be this way for a very, very long time.

Well it will go on longer if people are encouraged by those that are capable to stay ignorant. Also Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Keep arguing that. You will eventually give up. Stupid does not see reason and you know what they say about the people who fight it.

Remember that "above average" intelligence excludes 50% of the population. So unless you're scheming on ways to raise the tide for all boats, give up.

There are plenty of enablers out there, but there are also plenty of jaded souls who do not see this as a war that they can win.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#187

Post by imhoguy »

Legogris wrote: post #163
AnonHP wrote: post #98

This is an area where iOS sucks. Having faced some undesirable consequences in the past from greedy and/or downright malicious developers, I don’t have automatic updates turned on for apps. But what makes things worse is that iOS doesn’t provide a way for a user to downgrade an app to a previous version. Since syncing app binaries to computers was also long removed (from iOS 9), the only special version of iTunes (12…

I don't want to defend Apple or iOS here, but Android (talking OS upgrades, not apps) is even worse, by far. Depends on the manufacturer and I imagine Google is one of the less horrible ones, but pretty much every update for Samsung Galaxy: * Changes the UI in some way I don't like * Re-enables intrusive, annoying and concerning background services and their permissions and notifications that are painful and time-con…

Thankfully almost anyone can side-load APK with older version - unless a developer blocks the API. But agreed it is a mess. That is why I think auto-updating mobile devices or "the cloud" will never fully replace computers with a local software for a serious work.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#188

Post by dt3ft »

cgrealy wrote: post #55
viraptor wrote: post #54

I like the main idea here, but the points listed are a bit extreme. Specifically this one: > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default Are you ready to pay for the ongoing support of all legacy interfaces, including the ones you're not using and which are possibly not used by anyone in the world (no telemetry)? Are you ready for all the bugs and security issues t…

Completely agree about interfaces. File formats should be supported though. At the very least, I should be able to import a file from the old version and have it converted.

If you pay for your software through a subscription, of course, no problem.

You paid for software once? Well, tough luck. Your older versions will no longer be supported because we can't afford developers because you stopped giving us money.

There is no way anyone is going to be supporting old formats while providing free updates. This makes no business sense.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#189

Post by hyperman1 »

egypturnash wrote: post #41
chrisseaton wrote: post #7

> should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default I don’t understand why people are so precious about their UI and workflow. They obviously managed to learn and adapt to the current UI. Why can’t they adapt to a new one? If you’re super sensitive to something as trivial as a change to a menu location maybe that’s a sign you should be automating whatever your workflow i…

I don't understand why programmers are so precious about their choice of text editor. They obviously managed to learn and adapt to their current choice. Why can't they adapt to a new one?

Funny. I'm trying to adapt my Java workflow from eclipse to idea. Again. And I know that almost everyone agrees idea is better than eclipse. And some of eclipse's major features are broken enough to actually hamper me professionally - looking at you, maven integration. And both tools seem at least equally capable, just everything is named different and placed somewhere else. But eclipse is now about 20 years ingrained in me.

So every 1-2 years I try to live with idea for a month or so. Sometimes even compromising by switching to the eclipse keybindings. And I know my productivity will drop while adapting. So I sweat on that bloody superior idea interface for 2 weeks, then some super hot emergency drops in, and I do 'only this one' in eclipse. Then switch back to idea. After 2 of 3 emergency's, I give up and go back to eclipse. See you next year, idea.

I know this is stupid. I'm happy using emacs, vscode, notepad++, even vi, for almost every other programming language, except Java. This can't be healthy. And yet...

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#190

Post by imhoguy »

wvenable wrote: post #4

Some automatic updates should really just be different products. The most obvious one at the moment is Android Firefox is getting a big automatic update that, for a lot of people, will be a very big downgrade and an unfriendly UI change. But Mozilla doesn't want to maintain security patches for X different products. And that's true of most vendors. This model of computing where all users are always on the latest vers…

I was using Firefox Nightly occasionally which already had the controls on the bottom so the UI jump wasn't hugh issue for me, although I still hit my muscle memory habits.

Unfortunately the upgrade also cleared all previously saved form data for me. I know it is cache stuff which could be gone at any time, but still a little glitch in the experience.

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