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Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

wsj.com

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Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#81

Post by breakfastduck »

fsociety wrote: post #69
breakfastduck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite possibly the least polarising move Apple has ever made. I can’t think of a single reason as to why adding the prompt is a bad idea.

Not a single one? By reducing the effectiveness of advertising business models, Apple can force apps to use in-app purchasing and gain that 30% cut. Additionally they do not have to display the permission modal for their own user tracking. It’s good to display prompts and make users aware of what is happening.. but it should be mandated fairly by a third-party not the company owning the App Store. Google is heading d…

I'd still rather have to cough up cash than give in to tracking by default, though. So generally this isn't a negative for me.

Naieve as you may think me, I think Apple want to get data so they can sell me products they sell (both Apple products and third party software) - I'm ok with that because I like their products and software. I'm consciously buying into an ecosystem that is purchase driven rather than making money off data sales.

They don't have to display the modal on their own user tracking because I've already signed up and bought in.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#82

Post by Yetanfou »

I've been fairly critical of many things Apple does and stands for but in this case I can but give them a pat on the back and say "good Apple". I still won't buy in to their walled world since I consider my freedom to valuable but if this can help put a dent in the scourge called ad tech I'm all for it. It won't affect me personally since I use free software on a Google-free AOSP-derived Android distribution and as such am already immune to the ad tech monster but that doesn't diminish the value of cracking down on the aberration, the pustule, the diseased malignancy called ad tech. Be gone, foul creature, your days are done.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#83

Post by samat »

makecheck wrote: post #60

I see nothing wrong with returning to older models of advertising: you buy simple ads (like pictures or text on web sites, or audio during podcasts), with zero scripting attached, and no video. And you track them in obvious ways (e.g. special codes at checkout, or you simply ask “how did you find out about us?”), which still gives a clue which ads were effective. The entitlement of these ad companies to their obscene…

Audio in podcasts could be and are targeted now. Scared the shit out of me, so I did some digging and arrived at https://www.acast.com/en

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#84

Post by [deleted] »

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38
curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#85

Post by dillondoyle »

czzr wrote: post #45
robterrell wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why everyone's instant reaction might be "good," but if you are in the business of making an app, you will eventually need to get users for your app. Advertising is how that happens. That's because app store discovery was nerfed years ago, to make store search ads a revenue source. This Apple IDFA change will likely force you to redirect your ad spend from the Facebook Audience Network to Apple search ad…

Advertising existed before detailed tracking, and can exist perfectly well without it. Perhaps it will be a little less effective, but we do not need to optimise our society to increasing the effectiveness of advertising.

Except you don't get people buying fake ovens offline. There isn't a great analogy I can think of but there is a huge amount of ad fraud where it's profitable to fake an install, fake app use to generate more fake ad revenue ad fake installs, etc. So long as it's profitable for someone to fake installs and fake user traffic there will be a need for better value conversion tracking

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#86

Post by sizzle »

After being an Android fanboy since the G1 was announced, then all through the nexus line of phones which turned into the pixel line, I say without hesitation that my next phone is going to be iphone.

I'm sick of the tracking and lack of fine grained control to limit app permissions and background data.

Goodbye Google, thanks but no thanks. I can't trust your subsidized spyware tracking tech in my pocket anymore.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#87

Post by mywacaday »

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

I've never had an IPhone, this will make me consider it next time my upgrade is due.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#88

Post by soneil »

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

The actual UX of this is very telling. Apple haven't actually clobbered this, they've added a modal "This app would like to track you across apps, Y/N". Apple haven't actually said no to this, they've given the user the ability to say no.

I find this an interesting distinction, because the only logical way to extrapolate "the user now has a choice" to "apple have ruined this for us", is to admit that given a clear and effective choice, the user will opt out of this almost every time.

Which is why this one is a "good!". If every user wants to opt out of this, perhaps it should never have been viable in the first place.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#89

Post by soneil »

supernova87a wrote: post #7

Everyone hates when their stable business model is disrupted. But in general, I don't think it should be the role of regulation (or lawsuits, or retaliatory business strategies) to protect people's business models -- unless there are compelling public interest/national security/etc reasons to do so. Someone will figure out how to thrive when conditions change. You're just mad because it's not you any more.

It doesn't help that adtech have been pretty consistent about being as abusive as they can until they get pushed back.

This is the industry that invented the popup/pop-under, until browsers were forced to adopt technological solutions to prevent them. And third-party toolbars - good lord. The over-reach of tracking is just the same thing all over again.

Perhaps if they weren't actively attacking us, we wouldn't be so eager to defend ourselves.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#90

Post by fouric »

fwiwm2c wrote: post #68
curiousllama wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) yes, this decimation is what I want, unironically. I want to pay up front and then trust the app isn't doing shady sh*t, rather than not pay and hope that whatever shady stuff they're doing doesn't bite me too hard. The reason every app does shady stuff is because you can't compete as a legit app when Shady Shaun over there is "giving" it away. I want the ecosystem to be paid. (2) Apple's margin (from their distr…

Fine - you might be ok to pay it. But think about 100s of millions of users who aren't ok to pay for it. Now they don't have much choice since Apple took it away.

Very, very few of those users had a choice in the first place. Few apps have both ad-supported and premium versions in the first place (especially not the big ones - you literally can't pay for a Facebook subscription), and extremely few users were even aware of the trade-off that existed. Some premium apps (e.g. YouTube Red) engage in data harvesting anyway.

Apple did not take a choice away - they just changed the only option.

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