US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos • Hacker News Board

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#221

Post by c22 » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

thinkloop wrote: post #131

matheusmoreira wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which single person is going to pay $1M or $50 million for a song or movie? Why not crowdfund those amounts instead? That way, all creators get paid before the work even starts and the result can be safely released into the public domain. We need to develop alternative business models like this in order to replace copyright. Cultural works must be treated like an investment.

> Why not crowdfund those amounts instead? That way, all creators get paid before the work even starts and the result can be safely released into the public domain. Then shouldn't every business have to follow the same rules? Making a "copy" of an iPhone costs $20 or $30, should Apple have to crowdsource their factory and IP then sell iPhones by weight or value of raw material? Why do content creators get screwed bec…

> Making a "copy" of an iPhone costs $20 or $30

I think you might be off by a factor of ten or so. [0][1]

[0]: https://technology.informa.com/596781/iphone-x-costs-apple-3...

[1]: https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-much-do-iphones-cost-to-...

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#222

Post by neuronic » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

hesdeadjim wrote: post #214

anon9001 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Piracy is a crime, deal with it. If you don't agree with the price or the distribution method, don't consume the content, problem solved. Sure, or I can just pirate content. That's another way to deal with it. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to have a problem because you're trying to keep your bytes a secret. Pretty much everyone has accepted that you can't stop piracy, at least once the content is available on p2p.…

If you don't feel like paying for HBO, why should you have a right to watch Westworld?

I am paying for Westworld but you know what I am not willing to pay for? Scientific articles. That's because in a lot of cases, taxes have already paid for the grants or sponsors/donors decided to support the research.

Blood sucking journals in between science and the public are overdue for dying off.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#223

Post by bondarchuk » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #207

Leaking pre-release movies is just a dangerous thing to do, and even a hypothetical producer/distributor's organization with the weakest stance on piracy one could imagine would go after them. Obtaining copies of unreleased media involves a direct attack to compromise people connected to a company. Even from my anti-copyright position, it's exactly the same as infiltrating a company to find out trade secrets or thing…

As per your 2nd paragraph, the public good is that a lot of people might be saved from spending money to see a crap movie.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#224

Post by sjy » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #200

matheusmoreira wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1.) If it can be pirated, it should be pirate-able. If it's data, it can be freely copied and processed. There's little anyone can do in order to stop it even if it's not supposed to be happening. > Taken to the extreme, does this extend to the realm of people's appearance? With deepfakes I can 'pirate' someone's face and voice to be used for things they would never agree to. I'm not sure about this. I feel that th…

> If it's data, it can be freely copied and processed. There's little anyone can do in order to stop it even if it's not supposed to be happening. Property laws exist to stop the strong from just taking what they want from the weak. Effectively, someone can point to something and say "this is mine, you cannot have it", and either society backs them up on this or it does not. The only thing preventing someone from ste…

That’s a pretty generous view of the purpose and history of property laws. This article is about American media companies using intellectual property laws to get individuals in foreign countries arrested.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#225

Post by moftz » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

rolph wrote: post #177

Nasrudith wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They paid for the ticket didn't they? And even if it was a projection room cam they could have offered a seat there and yet they didn't so no material loss to claim. You can't claim that my tree falling on your grass did damage to your hypothetical Porsche and claim losses of it. They still got their share of the fixed pie. Theft isn't infringement.

no theft isnt infringement, the infringement happens when you distribute your product. the viewing experience is what is paid for by ticket, camming subverts the sale of the experience. if someone went into a strip club with a camera and recorded the live show thats theft as well. When the dancer produces thier own disk and distributes it thats in the same boat as a DVD release and any number of eyes can experience t…

Theft almost doesn't seem like the right word for it. I'd compare it more like when someone sneaks into a movie theater without paying. You could argue about whether or not the people stealing these films ever intended to pay money to see them in the first place. Studios should figure out how much money they actually lost on ticket sales to pirates who would have paid for a ticket if they had no access to a cam version and then compare that to how much they spend in lawyer fees and IP firms trying to combat it. Considering how easy it is to find a copy, watch it, and suffer no repercussions, I'd say they either are wasting their money or not spending enough.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#226

Post by breakfastduck » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #103

breakfastduck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is true on a grand scale. It's been widely recognized that the majority of piracy is committed by people who would not spend the money on the item anyway, or in cases where it is actually difficult to buy the item. There's a reason cheap & easy access to media (streaming) has reduced piracy. People are willing to pay for something if it has value, is offered at a reasonable price and is easy to purc…

> It's been widely recognized that the majority of piracy is committed by people who would not spend the money on the item anyway What about other items? E.g., someone who pirates a graphics editing program that costs several hundred dollars indeed might not have purchased it if piracy had not been available, so arguably that piracy did not cost that software maker a sale. But if piracy had not been an option, would…

These a good points, and I must admit I hadn't considered the 'looking for alternatives' idea.

Anecdotally though, I think over the long term piracy can be balanced out. I pirated a load of games and software when I was younger with no disposable income which I have now purchased - I could argue the point I'd never have gotten into some hobbies if I hadn't had the piracy option, and they never would have got the purchase later down the line.

Totally get where you're coming from though, I don't think it's as black and white as maybe I had previously thought.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#227

Post by sjy » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:32 PM UTC

f154hfds wrote: post #164

matheusmoreira wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, artists have bills to pay. So? That doesn't change anything. The needs of creators cannot override our need for computing freedom. Enabling creators to pay their bills by charging money for data will have serious consequences for society in the long term. If they have bills to pay, they can find something else to do. Ideally, they should get paid for the act of creating rather than the final result. > it feels…

In your view, how do digital content creators such as artists make a living? I am honestly curious. Are you saying that the entire gaming industry should be open source and sustain itself purely on peoples' charity?

Since you mentioned the gaming industry: most popular games make money without relying on charity or selling copyrighted files. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-played_video_game...

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#228

Post by triceratops » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:32 PM UTC

mrandish wrote: post #23

I'm concerned our justice systems is expending enormous resources investigating and prosecuting these cases as felony crimes on behalf of the MPAA and RIAA lobbies (which have a revolving door of former fed prosecutors as employees/lobbyists). The cases are more properly pursued in civil court where the pirates should be sued for the damages they cause (not agreeing with MPAA's damage assessment, that's for the judge…

> Studies have shown that frequent pirated media downloaders are among the relevant industry's best, highest-spending customers.

Copy that. I never pirate and I hardly ever spend money on media.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#229

Post by breakfastduck » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #106

breakfastduck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is true on a grand scale. It's been widely recognized that the majority of piracy is committed by people who would not spend the money on the item anyway, or in cases where it is actually difficult to buy the item. There's a reason cheap & easy access to media (streaming) has reduced piracy. People are willing to pay for something if it has value, is offered at a reasonable price and is easy to purc…

Industry groups like RIAA obviously massively overstate their case when they claim every pirated mp3 is a lost sale, but Napster et al. did cost the music industry dearly. If you look at a graph of music sales over time, you can see that the 1990s were a great time for the music business.[1] CDs brought in increasing revenue until the early 2000s, when they precipitously declined. Legal downloads did not make up for…

The music industry had a tough decade in this instance because they missed the digital boat and had to play catch up.

If they'd not been so greedy and got involved in mp3 downloads and streaming earlier they might not have had such a hard time.

Like your final point, it could easily be argued that piracy has actually forced industries to pursue more consumer friendly practices that they would otherwise have ignored.

I'll check out that documentary, it sounds interesting

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#230

Post by holidayacct » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #87

holidayacct wrote: post #44

The justice system is complete crap, the US government doesn't have the ability to deal with piracy because it is international. This doesn't work the way people think it does, there is literally no justice involved. The CIA is used to using movies and television as a pathway for manipulating the American population. There is a very long history of this happening and the people they use (yes use) to do this aren't ma…

> it is being done in broad daylight everyday all over the country because it only has meaning to the person being targeted. I'm guessing you also believe that "gang stalking" is a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking#False_claims_of_stalk...

I hope you're not this naive.

Gang stalking is a real thing, when I was a child people used to call each other up to and gang stalk anyone who had just moved into the neighborhood just for shits and giggles.

It was just a bunch of kids who would call their next door neighbor to let them know someone we didn't know was walking around. The game was to walk outside of your house and just stare at the person as closely as possible as they walked by and then walk back in. Individually its not a big deal but when you walk through a neighborhood and hundreds of people walk out of their home one at a time just to stare at you and they never say a word it makes the person walking around hyper paranoid.

People do this sort of crap all the time for many reasons including extortion, they text message networks of people to follow an individual person around as part of targeted harassment. If the person doesn't pay up in the form of shopping at the right places they just keep following the person around. It's illegal but hard as fuck to prove.