Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#61

Post by Grustaf » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

What you’re describing is the dream scenario, creepy ad tech being replaced by things like micro transactions and new innovations along those lines. Maybe this can make it happen? I for one would gladly pay the minuscule amounts of money facebook makes from me seeing their annoying ads.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#62

Post by breakfastduck » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

It's not free if you're paying with data. I have no problems paying for apps that I use daily in exchange for not having my data sold off to the highest bidder.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#63

Post by tru3_power » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

Doesn’t this change simply require for the apps to ask for permissions to use this data? I’d gladly pay for an app vs. giving away all my info. I would assume there are people on the other side of the fence as well.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#64

Post by curiousllama » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

(1) yes, this decimation is what I want, unironically. I want to pay up front and then trust the app isn't doing shady sh*t, rather than not pay and hope that whatever shady stuff they're doing doesn't bite me too hard. The reason every app does shady stuff is because you can't compete as a legit app when Shady Shaun over there is "giving" it away. I want the ecosystem to be paid.

(2) Apple's margin (from their distribution channel) is not unreasonable, imo, given that most apps would simply not be successful without the trust and technology Apple provides.

(3) Apple is obvi not benevolent; they're a _self-interested_ supporter of privacy. [Company] does [thing I like] so I pay [price] is how companies work, why I back Apple here, and ultimately why I'm willing to pay $60 or whatever for a charging cord.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#65

Post by specialist » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

czzr wrote: post #45

robterrell wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why everyone's instant reaction might be "good," but if you are in the business of making an app, you will eventually need to get users for your app. Advertising is how that happens. That's because app store discovery was nerfed years ago, to make store search ads a revenue source. This Apple IDFA change will likely force you to redirect your ad spend from the Facebook Audience Network to Apple search ad…

Advertising existed before detailed tracking, and can exist perfectly well without it. Perhaps it will be a little less effective, but we do not need to optimise our society to increasing the effectiveness of advertising.

Conflating contextual and targeted advertising isn't even the worse intellectually dishonest offenses of the social media apologists.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#66

Post by fwiwm2c » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

biddit wrote: post #50

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

Don’t be silly this doesn’t take away advertising-supported apps whatsoever. They’re just taking away the ability to target users based on activity outside of the app, perhaps reducing the effectiveness of the targeting. Plenty of industries survived for centuries without these kinds of ads.

Facebook is literally saying that their Audience Network product will see 50% reduction in revenue. That means apps will see less revenue from using AN. This is likely a pattern across apps.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#67

Post by fwiwm2c » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

tima101 wrote: post #57

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

> Get ready, as a user, to pay for these apps which were once free. A user will prioritize apps by value and pay for those that provide most value. Developer of valuable app will get paid. Is this a bad thing?

If it was user choice - this is fair. But a platform is making this decision for the users and in the process trying to extract value.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#68

Post by fwiwm2c » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

curiousllama wrote: post #64

fwiwm2c wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you realize what this means is that ads as a monetization model for apps is getting decimated. These apps will now have to explore alternate monetization models such as either making themselves paid or subscriptions. And guess what, Apple takes a 30% cut of it. If you are thinking Apple is a benevolent savior of privacy, you are absolutely wrong. All they are doing here is to hurt advertising so that more apps…

(1) yes, this decimation is what I want, unironically. I want to pay up front and then trust the app isn't doing shady sh*t, rather than not pay and hope that whatever shady stuff they're doing doesn't bite me too hard. The reason every app does shady stuff is because you can't compete as a legit app when Shady Shaun over there is "giving" it away. I want the ecosystem to be paid. (2) Apple's margin (from their distr…

Fine - you might be ok to pay it. But think about 100s of millions of users who aren't ok to pay for it. Now they don't have much choice since Apple took it away.

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#69

Post by fsociety » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

breakfastduck wrote: post #34

curiousllama wrote: post #21

Initially, I was skeptical of the "good!" reactions. It's worrying/annoying when one company alone has the clout to massively impede a potential competitor (or legitimate service they simply dislike) in arbitrary ways. And then I read the subheadline of the article: > The social-media company says Apple’s privacy changes will affect its Audience Network business, which connects users’ Facebook identities with their o…

Quite possibly the least polarising move Apple has ever made. I can’t think of a single reason as to why adding the prompt is a bad idea.

Not a single one? By reducing the effectiveness of advertising business models, Apple can force apps to use in-app purchasing and gain that 30% cut.

Additionally they do not have to display the permission modal for their own user tracking.

It’s good to display prompts and make users aware of what is happening.. but it should be mandated fairly by a third-party not the company owning the App Store.

Google is heading down a similar route with Chrome. Nuking other’s ability to target ads while improving their own business in some way (in this case improving their ability to track users while negating others).

Re: Facebook says Apple’s new iPhone update will disrupt online advertising

#70

Post by rightbyte » Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

fsociety wrote: post #69

breakfastduck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite possibly the least polarising move Apple has ever made. I can’t think of a single reason as to why adding the prompt is a bad idea.

Not a single one? By reducing the effectiveness of advertising business models, Apple can force apps to use in-app purchasing and gain that 30% cut. Additionally they do not have to display the permission modal for their own user tracking. It’s good to display prompts and make users aware of what is happening.. but it should be mandated fairly by a third-party not the company owning the App Store. Google is heading d…

Google take 32% of the Adsense money so 30% sounds like a bargain.

I'm so tired of ad sprinkled apps. All I wanted was to play a cheap Tetris clone not look at some ad load screen. Any ad app feels like 90s ad-ware and you know it spies on you so atleast it is a good warning sign to delete it. I wish there was a filter option "no after purchase purchases, no adds" in the app stores.