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Rethinking the App Store

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Re: Rethinking the App Store

#121

Post by simonh »

supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

The problem with this is that it would be putting an obligation on Apple to design and implement APIs it doesn't want to create or support, and implement features it disagrees with. Who gets to decide what APIs and features comply with any such imposed obligation? Who reviews it and certifies compliance? Who decides on how many resources get allocated to it? As technology advances and iOS changes, how will the specification be evolved?

One option for them would be to shut down general access to the App Store and only enter into bespoke agreements with individual developers. Make it much more like a console system or feature phone with vendor-provided or bespoke licensed add-on features. I think this is a more likely outcome from trying to ram open access down their throats because it's an 'open platform'. Just close it. That's what Steve Jobs wanted to do in the first place. They'd lose some customers but maybe good enough for 90% of current iPhone users is good enough for Apple, rather than losing control of the design and feature set of their own product.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#122

Post by HumblyTossed »

supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

I would love to see something like F-Droid for iOS.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#123

Post by sjwright »

dannyr wrote: post #56
bluesign wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 3rd party stores will be net negative for me as a user. Currently I have trust to Apple, if I am or my kid charged wrong or tricked into some subscription etc, I have proof with experience that Apple will fix it. Now let’s say if we have many stores, some stores will try to be smart, will make exclusive deals, force people to install their stores to maybe play a one popular game. As a user I will end up with 1…

> Having 3rd party stores will be net negative for me as a user. Having 3rd party stores will not prevent you for using the Apple App Store exclusively. > As a user I will end up with 10 stores on my phone, each has my billing information, Imagine if there is only 1 store, e.g. Walmart? Only Walmart has your billing information and it's the only store where you can buy things. > Now let’s say if we have many stores T…

> Having 3rd party stores will not prevent you for using the Apple App Store exclusively.

It will if enough developers flee to whichever store has the cheapest rate and the fewest restrictions. It’s a race to the bottom and the consumer ultimately loses.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#124

Post by ardy42 »

simonh wrote: post #121
supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

The problem with this is that it would be putting an obligation on Apple to design and implement APIs it doesn't want to create or support, and implement features it disagrees with. Who gets to decide what APIs and features comply with any such imposed obligation? Who reviews it and certifies compliance? Who decides on how many resources get allocated to it? As technology advances and iOS changes, how will the specif…

> The problem with this is that it would be putting an obligation on Apple to design and implement APIs it doesn't want to create or support, and implement features it disagrees with.

That's not a problem, it's just life. Pretty much every person and organization has obligations they need to comply with that they may disagree with. For instance, COPPA means Apple (and other internet companies) already need to implement features to keep kids under 13 from creating accounts on their site without parental permission.

> Who gets to decide what APIs and features comply with any such imposed obligation? Who reviews it and certifies compliance? Who decides on how many resources get allocated to it?

Easy: either 1) government authorities or 2) an independent private self-regulatory organization like FINRA.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#125

Post by electriclove »

randomsearch wrote: post #48

This is really quite a simple problem: the rent is too damn high. Apple should drop or tier their pricing so that a $10 subscription is paying say 5% to them. Developers are happy. Anyone raking it in pays more, a progressive system that ensures small companies can innovate. Is this bad for Apple? In the long-term, they get more innovation and a better user experience. Financially, they lose some income on a subset o…

This is the reasonable thing.. but is it right for a court/lawsuit to force Apple to do this?

I would love to see Ebay reduce their fees. I feel like there is more of a monopoly there than there is with cell phones/OSs.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#126

Post by j2bax »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #75
jbverschoor wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emm. no thank you. History has shown that it will be abused. Also, the curation makes sure, or at least does their best effort, to catch phishing screens etc. Payments/wallet for example require the lock button. You can't mimic that. The App Store and iOS lockdown are one of the biggest reasons I'm on Apple devices. On macOS, I think there should be even more sandboxing and process separation. 30% might be a bit too…

It's easy to just not use non-Apple app stores though. That's the current state of things on Google, where other app stores are allowed but the vast majority of people just use Google. If you personally value security and a smooth user experience over being able to install whatever you want go for it, no one would ever force you to use another app store.

I imagine it would turn out similar to the game store market on PC. You'd have the various large publishers all having their own stores to get their games/software. Personally, I much prefer to just buy and manage all of my games through Steam... but I do have a handful of games through other launchers. It's annoying, but it would be weird to not allow them to control how they deploy their software.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#127

Post by cblconfederate »

scarface74 wrote: post #112
cblconfederate wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember blackberry? (why is it an accusation btw? if anything it's a good thing)

Remember the Apple //e released in the early 80s? Apple has been selling products more expensive than the competition for almost 40 years. People have been accusing Apple’s customers of being brainwashed for four decades.

It's not brainwashing. Signaling is a big part of life. We like to pretend that humans are rational machines, but in reality people spend most of their time doing irrational things because they are rewardding, like, i don't know , arguing with strangers on the net for self-importance reasons. Apple's customers are easy to mock sometimes because they make their signaling slightly more visible by paying extra for it, but the vast majority of ppl would act the same under the same circumstances.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#128

Post by simonh »

ardy42 wrote: post #124
simonh wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this is that it would be putting an obligation on Apple to design and implement APIs it doesn't want to create or support, and implement features it disagrees with. Who gets to decide what APIs and features comply with any such imposed obligation? Who reviews it and certifies compliance? Who decides on how many resources get allocated to it? As technology advances and iOS changes, how will the specif…

> The problem with this is that it would be putting an obligation on Apple to design and implement APIs it doesn't want to create or support, and implement features it disagrees with. That's not a problem, it's just life. Pretty much every person and organization has obligations they need to comply with that they may disagree with. For instance, COPPA means Apple (and other internet companies) already need to impleme…

So now the US government and the EU will be making legislation that specifies phone APIs and designs user interfaces. Great!

Not going to happen. Apple will simple close up the App Store into a private premium feature delivery system. Meanwhile the entire rest of the industry will be stuck with a new version of WAP. Thanks guys.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#129

Post by sjwright »

guytv wrote: post #53
bluesign wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 3rd party stores will be net negative for me as a user. Currently I have trust to Apple, if I am or my kid charged wrong or tricked into some subscription etc, I have proof with experience that Apple will fix it. Now let’s say if we have many stores, some stores will try to be smart, will make exclusive deals, force people to install their stores to maybe play a one popular game. As a user I will end up with 1…

Exactly. That's the price of freedom. Are you willing to pay it? or sacrifice your freedom for convenience? Most people, I suspect, will choose the latter.

I’m not giving up freedom, I’m eagerly paying a premium for a valuable service.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#130

Post by electriclove »

fierarul wrote: post #50

Interesting this is not positioned as a civil rights issue too. I understand, you have a developer company vs Apple. But what about people buying these computing gadgets? The millions upon millions of them. Shouldn't they have the right to run whatever software they feel like it on this general purpose computing OS without Apple's forced intermediation?

You need to understand what you are buying. If you buy an Apple product, you can use it in certain ways. If you buy a Dell or some other product, you can use it in perhaps different ways.

It just doesn't make sense that we are trying to force Apple to allow us to do things with their products that they do not support.

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